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Partisans are underpowered

18 May 2020, 22:42 PM
#41
avatar of Fire and Terror

Posts: 306

Ai partisans need better scaling for the lategame, and maybe a refrehsment cost reduction. There are just so many infantry sqads that simply outperform partisans. I would suggest giving the ambush bonus at vet 1 and adding some more rec acc with vet. Refresh could go down to 22-21 ish. Whats the point of an infiltration unit, that dies to vehicles and basically evrything in the axis rooster exept vet0 grens and vet0 volks? They are simply to punishing to use

At partisans are a big joke, very expensive to refresh and nearly to no impact it is a reason why no one plays OKW sturm with schreck. One is not enough. Their ambush capacities are a joke, and your better off with ptrs cons which are also considered a meme.

I actually would suggest them to be reworked in having ptrs and the con ptrs nade assoult. Since ptrs are better against vehicles and you wont be hunting tanks out in the open anyways Becouse of high cost and shit survivability (the tank mgs just murder you)
18 May 2020, 22:50 PM
#42
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

AT weapon are superior to that of soviet crews (about x2.8 better max range).

AT Partisan also get some of the best AT vet bonuses out there like:
+10% penetration
+30% accuracy
+50% accuracy when firing from camouflage
+10% accuracy
+20% reload speed

that are a lot better than AT Storm-trooper vet bonuses.
18 May 2020, 22:55 PM
#43
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2020, 22:29 PMKatitof

The point is not to make it even less appealing commander.
And 1 shreck on extremely squishy squad of 4 men that doesn't scale well and can't do any dmg to infantry at all is a fair price.
AT parsitans rifles are weapon crew level(medic squad can kill them as it has 3x more AI dps), so 100% of the price for firepower goes to shreck.


I was just gonna talk about their camo, but Vipper gave more info:
jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2020, 22:50 PMVipper
AT weapon are superior to that of soviet crews (about x2.8 better max range).
AT Partisan also get some of the best AT vet bonuses out there like:
+10% penetration
+30% accuracy
+50% accuracy when firing from camouflage
+10% accuracy
+20% reload speed

that are a lot better than AT Storm-trooper vet bonuses.


@Katitof And I'm literally talking about buffing a part of the commander nobody use

18 May 2020, 22:56 PM
#45
avatar of Stein Grenadier

Posts: 69

Aren't partisans better treated like offmaps that can do things like ambush stuff for MP rather than muni? In that regard, for their price, I don't understand the need to make them scale better that they can take the place of either conscripts or elites.

The dedicated partisan doc lets you pay for maphacks but doesn't have magical potential like docs with heavies, 34/85s or call-in elites, which makes it fair imo.
18 May 2020, 22:57 PM
#46
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

]Ai partisans need better scaling for the lategame, and maybe a refrehsment cost reduction. There are just so many infantry sqads that simply outperform partisans. I would suggest giving the ambush bonus at vet 1 and adding some more rec acc with vet. Refresh could go down to 22-21 ish. Whats the point of an infiltration unit, that dies to vehicles and basically evrything in the axis rooster exept vet0 grens and vet0 volks? They are simply to punishing to use

At partisans are a big joke, very expensive to refresh and nearly to no impact it is a reason why no one plays OKW sturm with schreck. One is not enough. Their ambush capacities are a joke, and your better off with ptrs cons which are also considered a meme.

I actually would suggest them to be reworked in having ptrs and the con ptrs nade assoult. Since ptrs are better against vehicles and you wont be hunting tanks out in the open anyways Becouse of high cost and shit survivability (the tank mgs just murder you)
please do look up partisan vet vs stormtropper vet , tell me how bad it is
18 May 2020, 23:01 PM
#48
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2020, 22:55 PMKatitof

1 shreck on squishy squad with no base rec acc bonus and moderate defensive vet is still worst AT squad in game


Of course it is? Why would the only AT squad that can spawn in a building not be one of the worst? Storms dont count they have to upgrade first

Its still useful. The doctrine isnt strong but AT partisans are plenty useful
18 May 2020, 23:31 PM
#49
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Too much chitchattery bois. More solutions less pointless arguing.

I would suggest to lower (a lot) the partisan vet requirements. Keep their reinforce cost high and allow the squad to be "retired" (a lot of CoH2 mods have this feature) and this refunds 1/2 of the squad MP cost.

Simple one-time use squad. As partisans should be.
Want to exploit the lower vet bonuses? Pay with the high reinforce cost and gimmicky performance.
18 May 2020, 23:56 PM
#50
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

can we have some real stats one why they are bad ?

cause until now i heard the most ironic reasons

they are bad cause they fells Up when i play them, BTW they are so bad i never play them

:romeoHype::romeoHype::romeoHype::romeoHype:
19 May 2020, 00:44 AM
#51
avatar of The_Flying_Flail

Posts: 53

feel like this belongs here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNkAw49mCXI


Thats a 5 year old video and is no where near representative of the meta rn. What they need is either a reduced reinforcement cost or something to make them late-game viable.
19 May 2020, 01:23 AM
#52
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358



Thats a 5 year old video and is no where near representative of the meta rn. What they need is either a reduced reinforcement cost or something to make them late-game viable.

why "they need" -what you said.
What do you expect partisans are for? Why would you buff them in he first place
19 May 2020, 08:09 AM
#53
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2257 | Subs: 1



Thats a 5 year old video and is no where near representative of the meta rn. What they need is either a reduced reinforcement cost or something to make them late-game viable.


yu must bge fun at parties (and partyzanies)
19 May 2020, 09:46 AM
#54
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1388 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2020, 22:38 PMVipper
When you say "AI Partisans are UP" do you mean that they they are nor cost efficient or that they do not bring enough to carry the commander?


I define cost efficiency as impact, which you get from the investment.

AI Partisans are cheap to call-in, on level or so with Engineers, and little bit lower than Conscripts. But their survivability and overpriced reinforce (for model with so bad stats) makes then unpleasant choice. Investments in AT-partisans or Conscripts/Penals will give more effect. In long term as well. Because one of the main core mechanics in the game - units preservation, and AI partisans barely match with it.

Survivability and overpriced reinforce is true for AT partisans as well, but it is specialist unit with unique role on the field and without any counterpart in soviet roaster. So it's save investment, because panzerschreck is always usefull, as well as AT grenade.
19 May 2020, 10:30 AM
#55
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


I define cost efficiency as impact, which you get from the investment.

It seem we use the term cost efficiency differently. For me it has to do with if what you get comes at the right price. And for me AI partisan bring at least enough for their price.


AI Partisans are cheap to call-in, on level or so with Engineers, and little bit lower than Conscripts. But their survivability and overpriced reinforce (for model with so bad stats) makes then unpleasant choice. Investments in AT-partisans or Conscripts/Penals will give more effect. In long term as well. Because one of the main core mechanics in the game - units preservation, and AI partisans barely match with it.

Survivability and overpriced reinforce is true for AT partisans as well, but it is specialist unit with unique role on the field and without any counterpart in soviet roaster. So it's save investment, because panzerschreck is always usefull, as well as AT grenade.

Since Partisan no longer come at 40 HP imo one should allow merge.
19 May 2020, 10:50 AM
#56
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2020, 10:30 AMVipper

It seem we use the term cost efficiency differently. For me it has to do with if what you get comes at the right price. And for me AI partisan bring at least enough for their price.

And that's the problem with your definition of cost efficiency.
Initial impact is not the only thing to consider with ambush units, or units in general - long term cost efficiency also matters.
This is why cheap abilities can be cost effective, but cheap units we've had in the game needed tons of buffs to be cost efficient.
Just go over history of SU-76, conscripts, osttruppen and M-42 if you struggle to understand the concept of unit cost efficiency.

Since Partisan no longer come at 40 HP imo one should allow merge.

That's putting a band aid on a broken limb.
Their base stats are fine, but they need to scale better as well.
Lower reinforce with vet, 5th man, better rec acc, anything really to make them relevant and rewarding if they are kept alife.
No one wants cheap commandos here, just a unit that isn't clogging your pop cap.

please do look up partisan vet vs stormtropper vet , tell me how bad it is

Con vet was also on pair with gren vet.
Could you guess why con vet was raised and cons ended up with upgrade eventually?
19 May 2020, 11:04 AM
#57
avatar of Fire and Terror

Posts: 306

please do look up partisan vet vs stormtropper vet , tell me how bad it is


do you keep in mind that stormtroopers have much higher dps and rec acc to begin with? They actually have a role since they really schred support weapons and infantry if they get close. Nobody needs an anbush unit that costs the same to resfresh as assoult grens and looses to them.

Have you actually tried using partisans? They are litterly quite a joke and a big meme. Nobody wants partisan terminators to return but partisans ability is hands down the worst sov ability with vehicle detection
19 May 2020, 11:34 AM
#58
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

I agree with the others that SMGs on partisans is just weird

What was so bad about irregulars and rifles?
19 May 2020, 11:39 AM
#59
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2020, 10:50 AMKatitof

And that's the problem with your definition of cost efficiency.

There no problem with the definition.

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2020, 10:50 AMKatitof

Initial impact is not the only thing to consider with ambush units, or units in general - long term cost efficiency also matters.

Never said it was stop "imagining" things.

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2020, 10:50 AMKatitof

This is why cheap abilities can be cost effective, but cheap units we've had in the game needed tons of buffs to be cost efficient.

Partisan had a tons of buff already.


jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2020, 10:50 AMKatitof

Just go over history of SU-76, conscripts, osttruppen and M-42 if you struggle to understand the concept of unit cost efficiency.

You are the one struggling to understand things not me.

Your claim is simply false. SU-76 and osttrupppen had actually be nerfed because they where too cost efficient when in numbers.

Finally you have countless time repeated that conscript are not cheap so at this point you are simply contradicting yourself.
19 May 2020, 12:58 PM
#60
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



do you keep in mind that stormtroopers have much higher dps and rec acc to begin with? They actually have a role since they really schred support weapons and infantry if they get close. Nobody needs an anbush unit that costs the same to resfresh as assoult grens and looses to them.

Have you actually tried using partisans? They are litterly quite a joke and a big meme. Nobody wants partisan terminators to return but partisans ability is hands down the worst sov ability with vehicle detection
yes but we were talking about scaling, they have better base stats because they cost more :luvDerp: 210 mp vs 340 and they need to upgrade too

and what's this about overpriced reinforce, they are 4 men ass green with ambush, build mines and infiltration

they cost the same to reinforce but fucking 210 mp to call in (if we consider the infiltration is priced around 50mp they would cost 160 mp while they have a performance of 250 mp unit :snfPeter: )

and have almost the same weapon profile

why not make them free and have them become 7 men at vet 1 with 1 cost to reinforce too ?
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