accessibility. They have to pay a boat load for their infantry to be halfway effective. From the word go their infantry is disadvantaged. Sentiment was obviously in relation to Tommies being... Good. Not Tommies soaked with fuel and pumped full of muni.
And what do cost and timing disparities have to do with me only quoting the DPS numbers to prove that the claim that "UKF doesn't even have an effective long range infantry unit any more" is false?
Change to Airlanding officier
14 Feb 2020, 20:47 PM
#41
Posts: 5279
#stalinwept
14 Feb 2020, 22:09 PM
#43
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
accessibility. They have to pay a boat load for their infantry to be halfway effective. From the word go their infantry is disadvantaged. Sentiment was obviously in relation to Tommies being... Good. Not Tommies soaked with fuel and pumped full of muni.
Unupgraded 4 men Infantry Sections have practically the same DPS at 35 range as G43 Panzerfusiliers. It's undeniable that Infantry Sections are excellent at long range, both unupgraded and upgraded, contrary to what was claimed. Which was also the only thing I was responding to.
Besides, Bolster and Platoon tech is about as expensive to get as a Battlegroup HQ with medics, and cheaper than Mechanized. Weapon Racks and Company tech are cheaper than the Schwerer. The upgrade costs per squad are nearly identical at 25mp/80mu vs 28mp/90mu. Accessibility compared to Panzerfusiliers isn't much of an issue, and neither is scalability.
15 Feb 2020, 00:08 AM
#44
Posts: 3053
Unupgraded 4 men Infantry Sections have practically the same DPS at 35 range as G43 Panzerfusiliers. It's undeniable that Infantry Sections are excellent at long range, both unupgraded and upgraded, contrary to what was claimed. Which was also the only thing I was responding to.
Besides, Bolster and Platoon tech is about as expensive to get as a Battlegroup HQ with medics, and cheaper than Mechanized. Weapon Racks and Company tech are cheaper than the Schwerer. The upgrade costs per squad are nearly identical at 25mp/80mu vs 28mp/90mu. Accessibility compared to Panzerfusiliers isn't much of an issue, and neither is scalability.
Now, what you say is true, vanilla section DPS is damn goodwhen they’re stationary and I’m not trying to contend that part, but pfusies are such a weird unit to make comparisons to at all since they’re 6 men and they’re mostly good because of that and their ridiculous moving DPS.
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15 Feb 2020, 00:21 AM
#45
Posts: 3053
Yes I have
The majority of SMG where designed like that and for good reason. "Elite" Thompson where the exception because USF elite infantry already come with great weapons.
Then you would know that in practice pgrens are still very good on the move. Not ~90% DPS retention good but nothing besides the G43s are like that so that shouldn’t be your base of comparison.
Exactly. And that’s why airlanding officer wouldn’t be crazy oppressively strong or anything. I think they should lose the ability to pick brens up from racks though, because with them they might be too good in the lategame.
Also, I’ve said it before but 35 mp is a pretty high reinforce cost for an assault unit that isn’t super standout great in any regard right out the gate.
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15 Feb 2020, 02:57 AM
#47
Posts: 833
Double Bren Infantry Sections have 22,5 DPS at 35 range.
G43 Panzerfusiliers have 11,6 DPS at 35 range.
Problem with using raw Tommy DPS stats is actually they have two stats. In cover and nerfed out of cover brens.
On the defensive yes they're going to have the cover bonus most of the time and out DPS grens or BAR rifles at range. But on offense unless you get lucky with shell holes for every squad you're going to have weaker bren DPS. This is not true for pfuss, rifles, grens (which actually perform OK on offense with rifle nade), penals etc.
This is the main reason Brits struggle on offense even when Tommies had stronger RA. Now that RA was nerfed last patch we saw the house of cards finally collapse.
The officer and buffed doctrinal tools like ass sections and glider infantry can be the answer to this problem. But the officer probably needs a slight early game buff.
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
15 Feb 2020, 08:44 AM
#49
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Then you would know that in practice pgrens are still very good on the move. Not ~90% DPS retention good but nothing besides the G43s are like that so that shouldn’t be your base of comparison.
Compared with DPS on the move of SMG troops like shock and you will see that Pgs DPS on the move drop more. And that is the point I am trying to make Pgs are not designed as smg are unit.
Finally the DPS on the move of PF with G43 is comparable with one Penal have.
Exactly. And that’s why airlanding officer wouldn’t be crazy oppressively strong or anything. I think they should lose the ability to pick brens up from racks though, because with them they might be too good in the lategame.
I suggest you test the unit because there are at 2 high rank player finding too strong.
Also, I’ve said it before but 35 mp is a pretty high reinforce cost for an assault unit that isn’t super standout great in any regard right out the gate.
Actually I agree on this one and imo CQB troops should be cheaper to reinforce than other troops they should get a reinforcement reduction with veterancy like Ro.e.
15 Feb 2020, 16:18 PM
#51
Posts: 5279
Unupgraded 4 men Infantry Sections have practically the same DPS at 35 range as G43 Panzerfusiliers. It's undeniable that Infantry Sections are excellent at long range, both unupgraded and upgraded, contrary to what was claimed. Which was also the only thing I was responding to.
Besides, Bolster and Platoon tech is about as expensive to get as a Battlegroup HQ with medics, and cheaper than Mechanized. Weapon Racks and Company tech are cheaper than the Schwerer. The upgrade costs per squad are nearly identical at 25mp/80mu vs 28mp/90mu. Accessibility compared to Panzerfusiliers isn't much of an issue, and neither is scalability.
Now I'm starting to feel like I'm getting conflicting reports on fussies.i was told,by you, that fussies DONT have good long range dps,that they have "somewhat decent DPS" how is that that tommies are undeniably excellent at long range but by your own words fussies with almost the same dps are only somewhat decent?
#stalinwept
15 Feb 2020, 17:53 PM
#53
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Now I'm starting to feel like I'm getting conflicting reports on fussies.i was told,by you, that fussies DONT have good long range dps,that they have "somewhat decent DPS" how is that that tommies are undeniably excellent at long range but by your own words fussies with almost the same dps are only somewhat decent?
Because that's comparing fully upgraded 6 men Panzerfusiliers to stock unupgraded unbolstered Infantry Sections? So yes, 11.5 max range DPS for a fully upgraded squad is decent at best, especially when compared to other dedicated long range infantry (which I did), while 11.6 DPS for a stock squad is pretty great.
15 Feb 2020, 20:40 PM
#58
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
Then you would know that in practice pgrens are still very good on the move. Not ~90% DPS retention good but nothing besides the G43s are like that so that shouldn’t be your base of comparison.
Exactly. And that’s why airlanding officer wouldn’t be crazy oppressively strong or anything. I think they should lose the ability to pick brens up from racks though, because with them they might be too good in the lategame.
Also, I’ve said it before but 35 mp is a pretty high reinforce cost for an assault unit that isn’t super standout great in any regard right out the gate.
From what I've seen testing myself it doesn't look like Airlanding officer gets elite Brens like Commandos (oversight or intentional I don't know). If that's the case then I don't see any point in getting Brens on him anyway- then he just has the same problem that Sappers with Brens have where you are dumping munis to slightly improve yourself at a range where the squad is super inefficient.
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