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Winter balance (1/2020) feedback - UKF

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7 Feb 2020, 17:44 PM
#141
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 605

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Feb 2020, 17:09 PMVipper

Currently the Officer does not even have to ambush SP, he can simply walk up to SP and win and that is even without the vet 2 extra man or gammon light bomb.


He come later, being more expensiver and also limited to 1, as i said, his timing and power lv are close to PZgren lv. Stumpio with 20 - 30 mp more in cost was able to baiscaly walk up and win IS in gren cover for years by now.

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Feb 2020, 17:09 PMVipper

Airladning officer and Assault Officer are nearly identical at vet 0 so I do not see how the airladning officer was lackluster.


My be lackluster was not the proper word but the old officer is a lot harder to use and keep alive than mando, and make access to mando in vanguard regiment cost close to 900 MP. The rework officer now have a huge bonus of 5th man at vet 2 and being stock.
7 Feb 2020, 17:46 PM
#142
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 605

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Feb 2020, 17:43 PMMusti
Here's an Idea, Keep the Airlanding officer as it is (same skills, models etc.(or rename to Commando Officer?) Assault officer get renamed and stays as it is now in the mod. Then make them exclusive to each other (if one is on the battlefield, the other can't be built/called in)
Vanguard stays as it always was, and we can all be happy.


No, if acces to commando in vanguard regiment remain at 900 mp then there are not much to happy about.
7 Feb 2020, 17:47 PM
#143
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8202 | Subs: 1



He come later, being more expensiver and also limited to 1, as i said, his timing and power lv are close to PZgren lv. Stumpio with 20 - 30 mp more in cost was able to baiscaly walk up and win IS in gren cover for years by now.

1) Airlading officer arrive earlier than Pg check the numbers
2) A CQC walking up to a long range units is quite different than QCQ walking up to mid to close unit and wining.
3) Even in your own description you described a scenario where assault officer ambush the enemy unit and not just walk up to it.

I suggest you test the unit in game to see how powerful it is.
7 Feb 2020, 18:08 PM
#144
avatar of Stark

Posts: 587 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2020, 11:35 AMVipper
Assault Officer (Previously Was Airlanding Officer)
.

Again another recipe for disaster. UKF may lack CQC stock unit but they do not need a stock commando unit. The unit will completely make commandos doctrine UP forcing additional power creep.

Instead of introducing a unit that will completely counter AssG SP and MP40VG and will be able to bully enemy mainline infatry aim lower and introduce a unit will simply allow UKF to defend vs these unit.

Suggestions:

Keep the unit at 280 starting with 5 entities and have them use 5 sten at about AssIS power (maybe the officer go use the commando one). Replace the light gammon bomb with a incendiary grenade.

In addition custom vet bonus for the unit more:
Replace passive healing with received accuracy split between vet 2 and vet 3 with superior bonus
Replace Reckon flight with a timed ability that give the unit armor and suppression resistance.

With these changes the unit will fulfill the role for helping UKF vs CQC unit without overlapping with commandos.

I don't think you test this unit correctly

Looking at his counterparts situation looks like this:
At vet0 they looses vs sturmpio squad and pgrens, barely vs assualt grens
at vet3 depends on scenario they can win or loose vs pgrens and easily win vs sturmpio

They definitely not bulling any CQC squad from OKW or Ostheer at vet0. Plus you can have only 1 of them on the field. It has a strong vet bonuses with cool abilities.

And argument that comes earlier than pgrens maybe a fact but we talking about 1 min or so. That only inpacts ostheer but if so unit can have increase build time or could be put behind sidetech.

Plus, unit can't cammo so it cannot be compare to commando squad. Options to ambush axis infantry then depends more on a skill of a player.
7 Feb 2020, 18:13 PM
#145
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 605

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Feb 2020, 17:47 PMVipper

1) Airlading officer arrive earlier than Pg check the numbers
2) A CQC walking up to a long range units is quite different than QCQ walking up to mid to close unit and wining.
3) Even in your own description you described a scenario where assault officer ambush the enemy unit and not just walk up to it.

I suggest you test the unit in game to see how powerful it is.


1. I said "close to", not "identical".
2. I was giving an example of more expensive unit win outright event in unfavorable conditions. My point is, assault officer is a more expensive unit compare to stum, so he should have better chance event in some unfavourable case, to win. However, you didn't describe clearly the situations, like, if both was in the open, officer close in and win with 1/2 models then i think it is acceptable, but if stum was in green cover, officer close in and win with 3 models left then it is indeed too much.

I did test the unit in AI custom, and i didn't deny the fact that it is strong.
What i didn't do is test in vacum.
7 Feb 2020, 18:18 PM
#146
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8202 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Feb 2020, 18:08 PMStark

I don't think you test this unit correctly

Looking at his counterparts situation looks like this:
At vet0 they looses vs sturmpio squad and pgrens, barely vs assualt grens
at vet3 depends on scenario they can win or loose vs pgrens and easily win vs sturmpio

They definitely not bulling any CQC squad from OKW or Ostheer. Plus you can have only 1 of them on the field. It has a decent vet bonuses with cool abilities but that's it.

And argument that comes earlier than pgrens maybe a fact but we talking about 1 min or so. That only inpacts ostheer but if so unit can have increase build time or could be put behind sidetech.

I wouldn't be suprise if they more some vet bonuses to vet0 to make unit better at start.

Plus, unit can't cammo so it cannot be compare to commando squad. Options to ambush axis infantry then depends more on a skill of a player.

Creating powerful early units is bad from design point of view since the whole game can be based on how that unit perform in the first 3-4 minutes.

In addition by lowering the power level one can make available earlier and add the utility of being good vs garrison one of the main problem UKF have.

In addition the current implementation makes commandos less desirable and overlapping among 2 commanders.

In the end of the day the can stat with a weaker version of the units allowing room for both commandos and if the unit proves to weak buff it after wards.

Pls provides tests results vs Assault grenadier and ST, last time I checked it did not loose.
7 Feb 2020, 18:26 PM
#147
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 605

Also, officer's role is leading the assault following by sections, provide cqc power and support with utilities, meanwhile commando's role is ambush and sneaky behind the enemy's line. I dont see any "overlap" here.
7 Feb 2020, 18:46 PM
#148
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 605

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Feb 2020, 18:18 PMVipper



In addition the current implementation makes commandos less desirable and overlapping among 2 commanders.


I see it the opposite way. Assault officer make commando no longer a must pick in some certain cqc map, open up more tactic diversity in Commander selection. Commando will be closer to a choice rather than a requirement.

Indeed, 2 Commander may be pick lesser, but UKF have more than those Commander only, and there will always be certain situations for commando. Plus, those two Commander have more selling point than just mando.

8 Feb 2020, 06:31 AM
#149
avatar of srider

Posts: 31

Bug report: The latest hotfix to the mod broke Air Landing Officer in that they can no longer enter garrisons.
8 Feb 2020, 12:39 PM
#152
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1025

Most op ability officer have right now is that u can repair buildings when u pick cancer regiment.
Officer with shovel?
Frankly, it's kind of insulting.
8 Feb 2020, 14:25 PM
#153
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 605

Most op ability officer have right now is that u can repair buildings when u pick cancer regiment.
Officer with shovel?
Frankly, it's kind of insulting.


it is "leading by example" i belive.
9 Feb 2020, 11:21 AM
#154
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8202 | Subs: 1

Can we also rename:

"Demolition specialists "AVRE"" ability to "AVRA" or "AVRE assault gun" or "AVRE petrad", since they no longer come with infatry.

"Vanguard operation "Crocodile"" ability to "Crocodile" or "Crocodile flamethrower tank", since they no longer come with infatry and removing the flare which no other super heavy has.

"Command detachment Valentine" ability to "Valentine" or "Valentine command vehicle", since they no longer come with infatry.

"Artillery support group "sexton"" ability to "Artillery support Sexton" or to "Sexton self-propelled gun"

(edited to correct name for avre, note is is plural a left over from package deal, add some more stugg)
9 Feb 2020, 12:12 PM
#155
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 605

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 11:21 AMVipper
Can we also rename:

"Demolition specialist "AVRE"" ability to Avre, since they no longer come with infatry.

"Vanguard operation "Crocodile"" ability to Crocodile, since they no longer come with infatry and removing the flare which no other super heavy has?


For the AVRE, it is an demolition tank after all so i have no problem with current name.

For the crocodile, i will prefer the name "Churchill crocodile flamethrower tank". Flare is OK.

Another name i will repeat is assault officer into "platoon lieutenant", and please, give him a nonsilenced sten for god's sake.
9 Feb 2020, 12:41 PM
#156
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2024

I don't see how Assault Tommies are going to be a viable option when they aren't even better than Assault Grenadiers and come in a mediocre doctrine. Meanwhile Ass-Grens come with Tigers.
9 Feb 2020, 12:50 PM
#157
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2596

I don't see how Assault Tommies are going to be a viable option when they aren't even better than Assault Grenadiers and come in a mediocre doctrine. Meanwhile Ass-Grens come with Tigers.


Ass Tommies come in as 5 men at 0CP.
9 Feb 2020, 12:52 PM
#158
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2024



Ass Tommies come in as 5 men at 0CP.


Yes but according to Tightrope's video they still lose to vet 0 Ass-Grens. And they also don't have sprint to close into units.

And the UKF Officer seems incredibly OP it can charge in against vet 5 Obers from max-range and win. Wtf is this? On top of that the incredibly strong recon plane it's too much.
9 Feb 2020, 12:52 PM
#159
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8202 | Subs: 1


... Flare is OK.
...

Flare is not ok especially combined with "concentrated fire operation" (or Typhoons)
9 Feb 2020, 12:52 PM
#160
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 605



Ass Tommies come in as 5 men at 0CP.


as if ass gren come in as 4 man.
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