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Is the Brummbar perfectly fine?

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13 Jan 2020, 20:29 PM
#21
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563

Apparently half the the forum members so far think that a unit that is rarely used is "perfectly fine." Just shows what kind of people dominate this forum.


So you were fishing for people who shared idea of brum being up and now you are refering majority of people that thinked diffirently in quite judging manner?
13 Jan 2020, 21:34 PM
#22
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned


And this is why health points exist

And it's pretty simple why it's better in team games. More blobbing and more clustering gives it better targets


Please explain the lack of health points that the Brum has compared to a cheaper KV8 and the fact that KV8 has superior armor which means stug/pak/jp4 have only 2/3 chance to pen compared to allied TD have more than 90% to pen.
13 Jan 2020, 21:35 PM
#23
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned


So you were fishing for people who shared idea of brum being up and now you are refering majority of people that thinked diffirently in quite judging manner?


Yes, I am fishing for people who think a certain way. I called those that think Brum is completely fine "complete morons" in a thread I started yesterday.
13 Jan 2020, 21:37 PM
#24
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

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Is the KV8 perfectly fine, Soviet fanboys? Should the KV8 be allowed to kill not one but TWO at guns on a regular basis as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1teRM94ArE&t=24m6s&t=24m6s

The Brum has zero chance of killing 2 at guns singlehandedly.
13 Jan 2020, 21:53 PM
#25
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

you could try to be less toxic in the design of your polls
13 Jan 2020, 21:59 PM
#26
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

I would not buff the range on Brumbar because it can shoot over cover and its OP in team games. I do like the HP buff.
13 Jan 2020, 21:59 PM
#27
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

Is the KV8 perfectly fine, Soviet fanboys? Should the KV8 be allowed to kill not one but TWO at guns on a regular basis as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1teRM94ArE&t=24m6s&t=24m6s

The Brum has zero chance of killing 2 at guns singlehandedly.


"Should ultimate hardcounter to everything that has legs kill static targets with legs in range?"

Yes, yes it should.
13 Jan 2020, 22:11 PM
#28
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2020, 21:59 PMKatitof


"Should ultimate hardcounter to everything that has legs kill static targets with legs in range?"

Yes, yes it should.


But allied players get salty on the forums when Brum kills a SINGLE unsupported at gun (not using the bunker buster). LOL okay.
13 Jan 2020, 22:12 PM
#29
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 959

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2020, 21:59 PMKatitof
"Should ultimate hardcounter to everything that has legs kill static targets with legs in range?"

Yes, yes it should.


That's pretty much what Incendiary is saying, while pointing out that the Brummbar can't do that.

The KV8 is a heavy tank dedicated to taking out 'soft' targets, and can do so exceptionally well. The Brum is supposed do be the same thing, but requires FAR more micro to be effective, and even then can't win against two ATGs.
13 Jan 2020, 22:56 PM
#30
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 2



I said "perfectly fine." So if u later voted that it needs buffs, you should say that it was overnerfed, NOT "perfectly fine" even if you'd like to see just a very small buff.

I just RNGed what I will lock in as an answer because that's unfortunately about the quality of this poll.
It's a shame that another thread that could have had potential for a decent discussion gets hampered by a bad poll.

Well, to the topic:
I also think that the Brummbär is hard to balance. It's absolutely alright in team games, but suffers from casemate nature like all other casemates in 1v1. Buffing it's stats could make it too strong in team games, so the only possible way is probably lowering the skill difference performance. I'm not too sure how this can be achieved though. What Sander suggested sounds reasonable.
13 Jan 2020, 22:59 PM
#31
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

If they’re going for a modest buff, a slight buff in shell velocity could be good. Alternatively they could make it 10 fuel cheaper.
13 Jan 2020, 23:00 PM
#32
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Simply redesign that dam thing.

Less wipes, more heath damage even vs units in cover and garrison (similar to KV-8) (lowering the penalties vs cover and garrison)
More utility with more damage vs structures and criticals
More durability instead of firepower
13 Jan 2020, 23:20 PM
#33
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


Please explain the lack of health points that the Brum has compared to a cheaper KV8 and the fact that KV8 has superior armor which means stug/pak/jp4 have only 2/3 chance to pen compared to allied TD have more than 90% to pen.


Why? Am I the one who buffed the KV-8 when it got added to NKVD tactics? Did I ask for those buffs? No I didn't, for once can you stop complaining and just make your case calmly?

Lots of people use the brum (including me) in 2v2. I think it shouldn't NEED attack ground as much, as a few others have said. But when you do use it, it's still a really good unit
14 Jan 2020, 00:33 AM
#34
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

The Brummbar isn't easy to balance. Mostly because of the huge skill ceiling. The current Brummbar is absolutely devastating in the hands of a good player who can consistently use hold fire / attack ground to maximize the damage by manually aiming (targeting the middle of squads and predicting shots against moving targets). But for those who can't, the unit's performance is understandably weaker as the auto-fire isn't as effective.

There's also the issue of the unit already being good in teamgames regardless, and Ostheer as a faction being very strong in teamgames right now. Any buffs to T4 to make it more viable in 1v1s will affect the current status quo in teamgames, so they will have to be very careful.

My personal preference would be a very slight increase in projectile speed, as this wouldn't really affect high level play (predictive attack grounding on moving squads is already quite easy with the current velocity) but it would help the unit perform a bit better for the average player as its auto-attack against moving targets would become slightly better.
if this is true why we didn't see tier 4 in last tournament?
14 Jan 2020, 00:53 AM
#35
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

if this is true why we didn't see tier 4 in last tournament?


Did you even read the whole post you quoted? Half the time he was talking about team games

And then there's the fact that the tourney was a tiny sample size, the skill difference between players, the limited map pool

But again, you don't care. They play one mode and play on less than 1/3 the maps in the mode and and you still somehow keep using it to make claims about single fucking units. Try something else
14 Jan 2020, 00:57 AM
#36
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

I play team games, but brumbar is non existent here cause of the mass TD spam
14 Jan 2020, 01:10 AM
#37
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

I play team games, but brumbar is non existent here cause of the mass TD spam


Bull**** it's there plenty, I used and fought against one just last night

And how is multiple tank destroyers countering a short-barreled assault gun is a problem? I have news for you, there's no buff that's going to save it from more than 1 TD...

If it's multiple TDs against one brum then where's your 2x Pak? Your teammates JP4?

Sanders post even included a slight buff and you still weren't happy. I'm fine with his suggestion
14 Jan 2020, 01:28 AM
#38
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

I was mostly refering about this statment
The current Brummbar is absolutely devastating in the hands of a good player who can consistently use hold fire / attack ground to maximize the damage by manually aiming

Which the last tournament proved wrong as even said skilled players avoided tier 4 like the plague
14 Jan 2020, 01:34 AM
#39
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
I don't agree that Brum is more powerful in team games. Yeah, there's more blobbing in team games, but there is also an allied TD wall due to the small sizes of many team game maps. In 1v1 you can kinda maneuver where the TD isn't but in team games TDs are everywhere. And 240armor(288 at vet2) is pointless vs TD spam. SU85 gets 300+ pen at vet 3, Jackson has AP rounds, Firefly does 200 dmg so that it only takes 4 shots instead of 5 to kill Brum.

However, I will agree that the Brum should NOT require hold fire to get SIGNIFICANTLY better results. Its a T4 unit ffs. Not a sniper. Projectile speed should be looked at.
14 Jan 2020, 01:45 AM
#40
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

To both, Skyisthelimit and Stuglife, lets consider that different skill level matches will change the units used. Its not a simple black or white argument. Stupas are a rare sight on even matches i would add.

I see brumbarrs more often when OST can secure both fuel points on teamgames, because Allied are cornered to abuse infantry and team weapons. But that makes brumbarrs a little unnecesary, because they only secure an already won match. In 1v1s i see brumbars when the allied player goes full mainline+support weapons. stupas come very late in the game, to turn back the tides, but allied easily invest stockpiled fuel in a TD and after that Stupa is a burden, similar case to flame hetzer with some differences.

Its true that allied TD shut down too effectively stupas, even if it makes sense but on the other side TD are not threatened in any way by stupas. My point is there is no NEED for TD to overkill stupas, there is a REASON but it is not worth the overperfomance of TD that already counters mediums/heavies/AI tanks
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