I play every faction equally and even as Axis I have never found 120MM to be overpowered.
It is a literal rng cannon. I have made it some games where the lack of an extra inf unit has lost me game since mortar only aimed at squirrels. Other games if not outright wiping units it has drastically changed outcome of skirmishes due to a well placed hit. However that really applies to all indirect, the issue really ends up being a bad combination of low risk high reward when it comes to it ability to retreat with 1 model. Only thing that comes close is Raks with their ability to creep up with main blob and yolo out of there if shit goes south. |
I do not think I completely agree. (UKF where and still are badly designed...)
Imo most problems derived more from the scale of balance changes and less from any design issues.
Unit where either buffed through the roof or "hit with nerf hammer" and send to oblivion. That meant with every new patch system suffered a shock. Patches seemed to shift meta instead of finding the right spot for units.
The same issue continued with the early community patches.
Other issues were the hugh number of bugs and the great impact of some random events, things that should had smoothed out very early.
I got to agree, right now it feels as if mainlines specifically conscripts and grens overperform for their cost. Once they get their upgrades they are way to efficient, both units have pretty much made elites of their respective factions afterthoughts. OKW kind of needs them to help with VG performance fall off and USF just bleed too much to make it work.
Problem is players want what the other has so like vipper said some buffs/nerfs are to big and seem to mostly change meta instead of letting multiple strats openings be viable.
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Wanted to make SMG penals, saw he made Fussies which is a bad match up but didn't care. To fight blob I abuse AI strafe and dshka which worked out well. He kept retreating so I assume he thought it was stronger than it was.
Started with engi/Penal x3, I saw he had fussi in loadout so skipped car for now. Had a few skirmishes, won most of them and saw that he did make fussi. I ponder commander choice but fuck it I play this game to have fun. Go with Airborne for my sweet prince(SMG Penals) which happened to already be Vet1. I beat back a sturm even though it was a 2v1 VG/Sturm vs SMG, which i think caught him off guard. Since I usually LV skip I call in Dshka and Airborne Guards and really grab a lot of map along with getting a VG wipe.
He finally gets Flak out and flips the map on me little by little however I have enough gas for double tech up and build T34. I get buildings up and build tank but in the mean time I have to hold off on reinforcements so he pretty much now has entire map. Get T34 out and chase him off north fuel while reinforcing and poking and south side of map where he is was concentrated for a while. I keep poking and prodding him to get him to relocate which causes his flak to run over mine which I quickly come in to kill and run away. Watching the replay he seems to be waiting on Panther or possible stalling for Jagd which works in my favor.
Due to his stalling it gives me a chance to rotate my tanks and I rush his schwerer and kill it with satchel and tanks but lose PTRS Penal. His panther is made just in time and he kills 1 of my tanks but he has to play a little conservatively. Since panther is bad at AI I pretty much ignore it and cap as needed while building another T34. I end up getting 3 and see his panther alone attempting to stop a cap so I rush it with my tanks and ram it from behind(gigidy). Get the engine and then the kill, and run away.
As I am repairing I notice during one of my Strafes his rebuilt shwerer attacked, so rotate again and destroy it. At this point he gets desperate and starts to blob heavily, I am keeping him in check with dshka and AI strafe but its not enough. I get Katy out and get a few good barrages in. Game is heavily in my favor but he doesn't give up, evenutally gets out P4 and attacks south fuel hard. While fighting back I call in AT strafe which he didn't adjust his tank so I assume he thought it was AI. He takes massive damage so I decide to go all in. Get good hits on his blob and ram him again to finish off his tank. GG
I think he either didn't recognize SMG penal or thought it was similar to conscript but he paid for it a few times. Also he seemed to disrespect LMG Airborne with his Obers which he paid for also. Game got out of hand when he remade shwerer in same place if he would have made it in base game might have turned out differently. |
Holy shit you beat my smurf account! GGWP
What you mean? Is it one you try different commanders/builds so it doesn't mess with your rank?
Regardless you made my day. LOL |
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Wasn't sure which commander to pick , was floating MP but CP took forever to get. Decided on Shock rifles since I had lost so much map messing around.
Started off fight decent, however I started to float MP waiting on CP to get elites. Lost map control so I had to claw back.
I admittedly played pretty bad, got flamer to remove mg from building, scout car destroyed clown car.
PTRS rifles chased away scout car so it never ended up doing much.
I get MG out to control his gren blob, works decently and get AT out since his map control has been so much better.
I chase his P4 off several times, get 2nd AT gun out and pretty much zone out his tanks.
Finally get IS2 out, at this point I take game over. His AT P4 get bullied and he lost a Pak which I destroy.
I bully him and he tries to flank but KV8 hits the field and wipes and descrews other gun which I steal.
He goes for Panther and rushes me, I kill all 3 tanks and get the W
GG
I played horribly didn't really deserve to win with how bad I played for the first 10 mins but I got it together and pulled it out |
It will be dependent on many parameters but nothing that says Path will win no matter what.
I agree, a lot of it RNG dependent but since they vet quicker they can stay ahead of mainlines in combat performance and compete with elites until they get their vet up. All assuming bars of course.
Another possible solution to view range is making it like spotting scopes, they only have extended vision when they stay still maybe even out of combat if it isn't enough
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Pathfinder are pretty much balanced atm, they're good early game but start losing engagement once squads get vetted and elite infantry hit the field.
There isn't a strategy that evolve around Pathfinder dominating the battelfield from start to end.
The most common strat today is about turning them into zook blob with Scott behind to do the infantry killing. And if you don't put zook on them then they just become expensive spotters for your scott and Jacksons on the late game.
Kind of, those Elite units need to vet up first to beat down Pathfinder with bars. Since Pathfinders vet pretty quickly compared to other squads fighting a Vet3 double Bar with say a PG ain't the best idea unless you catch them out of position. The increased damage along with the native crit chance can cause a otherwise decent engagement to go sideways. |
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Couple pointers
1. You seem to randomly build sandbags, think about putting them where your enemy cant benefit. For example the sandbag at the VP could have been put behind the fence to the left instead. That way destroying it takes a lot longer while also allowing only you to benefit from green cover.
2. Units take increased damage while building, you lost a unit due to that and took extra damage earlier since you built close to the enemy
3. Why did you rush Battlegroupe? If it was to get your MG out earlier you need to be more agressive with them. The one covering the gas literally did nothing for a minute or 2. Match was 10 mins so quite a waste.
4. Maybe try playing the comp a few times to practice build order and capping. I would get the VG out first so you can put down sandbags and then get fussies so that benefit from them until they get their G43s. |
Ofc its unique. Every (semi-)elite unit arrives around CP2-3. Only OKW needs its most expensive tech structure to get them (their elite) out. If you dont rush T4 its gonna take some time until you get them out. Therefore the shock value between Lmg Obers and Lmg Paras is vastly different.
Ostheer and Soviets dont even need elites, cause they have the best mainline inf in the mid and lategame. In theory USF doesnt really needs elites too, cause their mainline scales good enough to be useful lategame. But their weapon tech/upgrade is a little bit too costly.
Compared to Ost/Sov Okw has way bigger popcap problems. I dont understand how you can think that OKW has an easy time getting 2 Obers on top of 3/4 mainline squads and support weapons with their heavy popcap tanks.
What your saying is a bit strange, every allied elite comes CP2-3 while PG can come earlier especially if your talking team games. Falls are CP2 but are doctrinal like most allied elites. In your last statement you say tanks which means your talking mainly team games if POP is that big of an issue. If your not then fitting in 2 Obers is feasible along with 2 MG and 2 raks which is fairly meta. Only when your talking Panthers is POP that big of a problem.
Going to your original post, aside from combat performance, players go for Fussies for their Utility such added sight and Flare which ends up being fairly useful in all modes. I think that is where VG should get a buff, maybe the ability to throw down a cheap AI mine that drops only 1 model similar to the soviet doctrinal one(7 muni I think). This way VG would be able to dictates fight better with out messing with overall balance.
I agree in theory about USF, but in practice since they are designed to assault they need to get in close with double bars which causes a unstainable amount of bleed which is fairly well known. The whole Pathfinder/scott meta allows the USF player to bypass this massive weakness while still paying similar to the same in weapon upgrade cost(1 or 2 Bars) along with same tech cost.
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There are units who can hold off Obers (Paras long range, Shocks, etc), but its a 4men T4 unit. It takes ages until you get atleast 2 Obers vet 2. Just use your tanks or arty. Have you ever played with Scotts against Obers? Thats just free manpower bleed.
What you described is pretty much every elite AI unit so it is not a unique problem. Now I am not sure if you meant Two Ober squads to Vet2. Which is a lot of initial cost/bleed but it is supposed to be. OKW seems to be the only army that can easily fit in several Elite squads with out wipes.
Soviet: most elite players go 3 conscripts 2 guards or 4 conscripts 1 guard. Other elites seem to be out of favor due to MP bleed or lack of utility.
USF: Before Pathfinder spam going for 2 or more Para's was a resource drain due to their target size and late arrival. Rangers were even worse since they due the exact same things rifle due but without snare. So at that point why even make it.
Ost: How often do you see high end players go for 2 PG let alone 1 outside of non-meta strats.
The point is you can't buff one without thinking of the other due to how blobby all WFA are. |