Profile of Hannibal

i did test and as u can see mid and close range are won by cons and long range is barely won by pfusi they may have less far dps but 1 more man means 80 more hp and another rifle

cause that's the reason why people wanted to nerf volks and buff rifle, this is the same situation but roles are reversed, guess what people say it's fine cause star>cross

EDIT: Something's wrong with the Riflemen data below, Con should still be fine.

Okay, so I did some testing:
PF vs Cons, all tested in at least triplicates if not stated otherwise, vet 0, no cover
range 0-10: Cons win clearly (usually 30% health left)
range 20: Cons win reliably (they won all fights, but one barely and the rest much closer)
range 30: Cons won 1/6 fights, PF won 2 reliably, 3 clearly. This happened even though I allowed Cons to model snipe PF by bad PF positioning in the first three runs

Now, judging from the sole AI power, PF are not worth it early game. Nevertheless, investment wise they are alright. Although Axis usually need the AT nade earlier, Cons would need to pay 125 MP (which is 30-40 MP per squad plus a bit of fuel), get molotov per side tech instead of up teching (20-30 MP plus fuel). For the sake of completeness, other factors are: Ourah vs vet passive sprint, flare trap vs flare shot, sandbag building for Cons, weapon upgrades for PF.

To test the late game fighting power I chose Riflemen as the opponent, as both units fit the role of mobile assault troops.
Testing 6 men PF with G43 vs double BAR Rifles, vet 0, no cover, triplicates:
range 0: PF wrickedy wreck Riflemen it's almost not funny.
range 20: PF win clearly to reliably
range 30: Riflemen win reliably.

For the sake of completeness: Riflemen double BARs cost more than G43, come later and need side tech. Rifle have different vetting, vet based AT nade, normal nade needs side tech. Rifles also cost more to reinforce and have no flare, but sandbags in doctrinal cases.



So all in all, OKW hampers itself early game by going PF. On the other hand they get the strongest starter unit of the game and can slowly start upgrading the PFs from ~min 5. Then PF turn into real beasts and are probably the most cost effective infantry unit in the game.

Hey guys,
There was a map with colored lines at the ground that allowed to position squads at predefined distances for testing. Can't find it anymore :/ googled for it but I probably used the wrong key words.
Could someone please post a link?

Thanks,
Hannibal

that u did not account the fact that cons have 1 more man than fusi, the extra men give them and edge in the fight thanks to more dps and 80 more hp, making them win at mid and close range and almost draw at long range

I adressed all of this already.
Cons have effectively only 40 HP more due to higher RA, which is 10% more than the Füsiliere.
At range 5, Füsiliere have 10% more damage than Cons, at ALL above ranges, Füsiliere have more than 10% more DPS. I also already adressed the fact that Conscripts are favored due to their 6th man and the less DPS loss with model drop. But please don't tell me that you truly believe that this can compensate the the DPS difference up to range 35.

And again: How often did you run the test? Did you also run it without cover? Do you have data on that and would you share it with us?

actually u can see in the mid fight image cons got a model sniped both times

I can see that a less than 50% health squad has 67% of his models.
How often did you run the test? Do you have data on that?
You did not adress the stats that I argumented with from the site that you are using as well for your arguments. What do you say about this?

But the thing is early power means fuel control thus early LV lead etc. The main problem of the PF is they can be build less thus less map control on top of that they are worse than volks which makes the situation even worse. If you try to replace them later on as your mainline, already vetted volks will still outperform them. The issue that needs to be adressed is their initial MP cost since you already trade your early power but you get further punished by the manpower IMO.

Yes, I see that point, but I think their overall performance is very good. So in my opinion reducing the MP cost can only work if they get nerfed for late game. But then you could basically buy just Volks.
And as I said, of all the factions, OKW can take the early game blow due to their Sturmpioniere.

Also I thought that vetted+upgraded (I know, 30 mun difference) Panzerfusiliere are better than Volksgrenadiere? This was basically the whole point of the redesign, wasn't it?