Profile of sherlock

I see that behaviour in the current version of the game in automatch quite often as well. I've never been quite able to work out what it was that causes it. I'm not sure if it is related to the squad postures. At least it didn't seem that the frequency increased but I'll check some more. But regardless of whether it was made worse by the mod, it would be nice if it got fixed, if it is fixable within the limitations of the mod tools.

Su76 has 180 pen IIRC at 60 range which means it has >50% chance to pen at max range. In t3, and for half the fuel cost of a JP4. Not to mention the free barrage. SU85 has no problems penning a panther at max range either.

Flipping a (slightly unfair) coin to see whether something penetrates or not is not what anyone would call reliable or even remotely a good option, and the su76 is not supposed to be one against the panther in the first place. Then there are the classic problems that everyone knows from handling either stugs or SUs: fixed turret, rotation speed, pathing, low health. Last but not least to have the flip of a coin decide whether it will penetrate or not it needs to hit first as well.

The SU85's problem is not penetration but the same you'll have with a stug facing off against a comet. It has problems navigating and hitting against a fast tank. It's also tier 4 and my point was that cheaper teching might cause problems because soviets might not be able to field a counter.

Ostheer panther has (always had) two issues:

It's price/timing is way out of whack with the rest of the factions.
It is either too inaccurate on the move, or too inaccurate on the move.

The panther also has another issue: the stug, pak40 and schrecks in general. If the panther was to be adjusted and t4 cost brought down, then there is still the issue that it fills a role which already superbly covered. Ost has never been lacking for at within the first 3 tiers. Everything and anything can be fought without ever going for a panther and that won't change. The panther would have to be made quite ridiculous to make it desirable, where some of the problems lie.

I think the panther could have the potential to work in the way it is in the patch, if t4 was cheaper, then however, the brumbar would be too easily attainable for how strong it currently is. The panzerwerfer would profit from a t4 price reduction.
However the issue then is also the matchup against soviets which, like ost, have to go t3 first. Depending on the new cost of ost t4 a quite significant problem could arise since there are no proper counters to a panther in the first 3 tiers and even the su85 is not a very reliable one either. So I can understand the hesitation by the balance team to go with what some are suggesting. Superficially it seems an easy fix, but that's only if looked at it superficially.

And largely because of this, in the context of Soviets v Ostheer, the Ostheer panther actually functions as intended. In the extraordinarily rare occasions of large teamgames of EFA only factions, Ostheer can and certainly will snowball into a swarm of panthers. But once USF or UKF (or an OKW teammate) enters the picture into those teamgames, that dynamic goes completely out the window.

In the case of a pure soviet match, it is also quite difficult to counter panthers for soviets. The reason why it does not work against brits is the allied team knows the panther is coming (in 2v2 it is in many cases) and gets out a tank destroyer rather than a medium tank to have the counter ready. This already is an indicator that it works once it is on the field, it's just the getting it there.

The changes to repair that are being proposed don't address ostheer pioneers or USF tank crews. This is suspect. Removing the ostheer panther's extra armor at vet 2, which was the only rule of thumb you could rely on (Just get to vet 2, then your panther can do things.) doesn't help the landscape either.

The changes tone down repair speeds of the other factions closer to ost and soviet levels, which is a good thing in my book. There are also no changes to soviet repairs, so there does not seem to be a bias

To my knowledge the panther has the highest armour value of any non-doctrinal tank in the game. It is by no means reliant on attaining vet 2 to "do things", if it wasn't doing things it's hard to imagine it would ever hit vet2 . If the game files in the mod tools are not severely outdated it has even 20 more armour than a tiger and at 800 hp the highest amount of health of any non-doctrinal tank as well. (please keep in mind that it might be that the game files in the mod tools are outdated, personally I didn't expect the panther to have more health than any other medium tank)

@Miragefla and Smith: is there any word on when we can trial the new changes that you could share with us?

Yeah, the long-range damage buff, plus the +10% accuracy at Vet3. Also the fact that they scale a bit more smoothly, starting from Vet1 onwards.

I see, I'll have to test and see how it plays out. Thanks for the clarification. I'm not sure about the reduced survivability though, but the 10% at vet 3 and the long range dps are indeed significant, thanks for pointing it out.

Thanks for the work you guys are putting in and the time you take to answer questions

OST spamming panthers? What game are you playing. Cuz I don’t ever see that in 1v1s, and by the time you have 2 of them in 2v2. You have plenty of allied tanks to be worried about. Including FFs/Coments/Jackson’s that are actually used correctly, and 85s. So please tell me where this spamming panthers is coming from. Oh wait 4v4 right?

If you're only playing 1v1 and 2v2 then the pop cap increase doesn't even effect you since you won't be in a situation where you'd have the resources for 2 panthers but lack 4 pop cap to get both out or you'd be already winning the match anyhow So what if the pop cap nerf is only for bigger team games? I only play 2v2 and below but I don't see why team game players should not see their game improved if it does not affect me at all (which is the case here).

So the only change that concerns anyone playing 1v1 and 2v2 is that the panther receives a nice buff to its fire rate, which is among its biggest weaknesses, which is a great change.