Poor man built a sniper vs UKF and then complained about BS tactics.
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Because not only do they keep their larger conscript base target size, they lose all their utility like sprint and snare.
Putting cons into shocks is like plugging a hole in the wall with peanut butter. Yeah it will stop the draft for a little bit, but it's freaking peanut butter what are you doing with your life.
This is laughably wrong. You lose a bit of RA (armour is glorified RA anyway) for half the reinforce cost. No brainer. |
The USF without a doubt has the advantage vs the okw in 1vs1 however.
That is not true. In terms of stock armies, the Kubel, Luchs and P4J are all massive powerspikes that hurt USF badly. OKW has a slight edge in stock armies which becomes wider if you use a Tiger or Cmd Panther. |
You also never mentioned any positives of the faction, further proving my train of thought that 90% of people who play this game have a unending hateboner for UKF and that it's been for years like this simply because UKF is not a copypaste faction unlike a certain other faction in this game and that you can't, or rather couldn't in the past tackle them like any other faction head-on.
I've played about 50 UKF 1v1s the past 2 months and got up to rank 9 UKF in 1v1. I can very confidently talk about the faction and how badly it does vs Ost. The Ostheer and JLI matchups is why people usually don't play UKF anymore.
Also Maxim > Vickers, idgaf what people think. Vickers is literal filth, no suppression whatsoever and literally useless once suppressed.
I don't know why you think Sextons aren't niche, everyone plays lend lease, commandos or hold the line docs high up in the ladder atm. |
I don't know how you can lose engagements so badly early game as USF.
The Kubel is uncounterable early. That's how. |
Still don't understand why the Brits are considered to be worse than USF on this forum when they have:
T0 HMG
Better infantry
Better TD
Mortar pit with long range HE barrage
Churchill crocodile
Comet
Sexton that does the same as the much more expensive Priest whilst being 90fuel
Hold the Line
Non-doctrinal 17pounder(situational since it's easily countered by static arty/Pzwerfer or Stukas)
They are supposedly "extremely-predictable" but I actually see different build orders as UKF early game, unlike USF which is always riflemen/pathfinder.
Because the Vickers is the worst HMG in the game, Sections need racks + bolster + 90 munis per squad to become equal to 240mp + 60muni Grenadiers, the Firefly is slow af and dies when rushed/flanked, the Pit always dies when your line gets pushed and it's exposed or dies to double leig, Sexton is niche and needs to get wipes asap to be worth so not much different to say werfer or Sturmtiger.
On the other hand, Brits have absolutely crippling weaknesses. Their core infantry cannot win fights out of cover unless you blob BRENs, they have the worst MG in the game, worst engineer unit without flamer stock, no mortar, no early light vehicle stock that can fight infantry, their early game crutch unit gets smoked by Ostheer because of 19 range fausts, sprint + camo docs, 222, etc. They get absolutely crushed by Ostheer because you are always one unit behind, Ostheer's Panzer IV is better than Cromwell when they hit the field due to better AI than Cromwell, Ost sniper is better, Ostheer docs are better with like frag bombs, cmd P4, scopes, etc, Ost 222 at vet 1 detects your sniper while you need to go assault officer or cmd vehicle and get air recon which is less subtle and more expensive. Vs OKW you do a lot better, but JLI absolutely wreck your face and since your tanks don't have pintles if your opponent goes Overwatch you can get absolutely REKTED by a single push with skillplanes.
Overall, I think UKF is a bit better than OKW if you go lend lease and assault sections but definitely not as good as USF. |
snip
Thanks for commenting, I always like to hear your 3v3 insight into USF.
Of course, that wouldn't be a problem in 1v1s and 2v2s, but since one MG42 can lock down an entire area (eg Across the rheine beach) in most 3v3 maps, USF is often forced into building a mortar just for smoke... and USF mortar is a popcap eater in a nutshell. Low damage output, especially in late with grens having DMG reduction.
Another problem is the fact that grens fit much better behind most cover objects than 5+ man squads. Rifles tend to have one model outside of cover or at a poor angle compared to the MG arc. Often enough, even though Rifles will be behind green cover, they will get insta suppressed because of that one model.
Grens do have more concentration in each model, being a 4man squad. Meaning that one model in grens is "worth" more than one model drop in rifles or volks or cons. However, for that con, the pro is that they tend to fit extremely nice behind cover, same as 4man sections.
It's actually funny how every such issue is solved by Paths/IR Paths who can spot the MG and let you actually pull off a good flank. Vanilla USF in 3v3 either has to go very early nades, which is map dependent because of muni placement, or double team somewhere else. This can be problematic af when coordinating with randoms who only know how to ping spam the fuel point. Sniper is absolutely a huge issue vs good players, but I feel like 3v3 maps like Steppes can let you dominate hard with the M20 to compensate. Mortar probably not worth it early for smoke since maps are so laney, MG can just back off a bit. I'd rather go nades.
I think that Rangers should have had the following:
2 upgrades: 4xTommies or 2x M1919 (140 muni or so, locks 3rd weapon upgrade) -> close/long range weapon paths
Carbines are medium-long range
Utility: Nade + elite zook (3x max)
For the price of 350 MP and 10 pop, I'd say they would add long range flavour to other doctrines besides airborne/recon, which is sorely needed in larger modes with larger, long-range maps (where grens, volks, obers are much more dominant)
Heck, obers have much more utility and are stock (and tad more expensive).
I don't think Rangers as another long range specialist would be necessarily bad, but with Paras being available I can see why having another elite squad with either full thompsons, zooks or LMGs is too much overlap. I'd personally have liked to have seen BARs on Rangers be more useful.
Echelons should get a small buff either in utility or combat, to justify the 200 MP price. Sure they can carry zooks for late game but zooks are not free, and given how they can drop hard until vet3, you'll drop a lot of zooks.
Well to me REs with zooks are repairs + backline mines + anti-dive squads, so I don't usually bleed models with them since they're rarely fighting ahead. Maybe capping.
Changes I'd like to see in rear echelons are reverting the damage nerf and the accuracy buff so that they're more useful against Kubels, small arms penetration buff at vet 1 to help vs 221 rushes, suppressive fire having a 10muni cost added because I think it's very strong when REs get weapons like M1919 and maybe a veterancy requirements reduction of like 5%.
I think this unit is very dependent on the state of the USF early game and judging by how much USF struggles early vs min 0/1 light vehicles I think REs would be a nice tool to have if they were better against them. |
i think that the one and only useful purpose of the rear echelon is to equip bazookas on it and use it as an AT squad, the AI is too bad to justify any sort of usage
M1919 + BAR Rear Echelon is actually good, but I agree. |
The problem with USF early game is that it is by far the weakest. RE is just part of the situation.
RE is the weaker fighting unit unless you count the major or USF medics. RE don't have a specific rule of engagement, they lose vs anything at close range and only win vs pioneer if they are negative cover involved during the fight. They're also the most unreliable unit in the game imo. Even their ability to suppress is completely unreliable, sometimes it works sometimes not and you don't know why.
Riflemen are overpriced for their performance. Or the other way around, the modding team buffed so much OKW and Ostheer early game that riflemen went from balanced to underperformant by far.
- They get destroyed mid to close range by Sturmpioneer for only 20 manpower more.
- Considering they delta in cost between them and Pioneer (80 manpower), they should perform the same ways vs pioneer as ST perform vs them, but that's not the case.
- They should destroy the same way volks once mid to close range as ST perform vs them for the same cost (20 manpower), but that's also not the case.
- They should destroy the same way grens once mid to close range as ST perform vs them since the cost delta is 40 manpower, but that's also not the case.
Mortar is a smoking joke. You cannot count on it to do anything else than smoking an area making it a kind of non combattant unit.
USF early game is also the slower, whenever you decide to do 2xriflemen or 3xriflemen your next unit will always come after you're opponent equivalent thanks to lieutenant/capt excessives build times. But hey! imagine if USF could field an early HMG or worst, an early ATgun!
Vs Ostheer, you're always fighting the first 4-5 first minutes with less units, the only excepting is if the Ostheer player went sniper, in that case you're even in number but you still have less vision, your opponent has a HMG and a sniper to bleed you with enough gren to support it.
Vs OKW, you can't do shit vs a kubel middly well managed, you're again late in number of units field that perform waaay better than your for a cheaper cost and obviously handicaped by the RE doing almost nothing at any range.
This translate as "You must play perfectly well USF to snowball and win" kind of shitty statement during tournaments just to avoid saying that the modding team trashed the faction.
I tend to agree, though I don’t think you’re that far behind in units vs Ostheer as RE + 3 rifles vs Pio 3 Grens means the 4th Gren only hits the field 10-20 seconds before LT and I think LT is the bigger powerspike. Midgame though Ostheer’s tools are so good at bleeding USF, especially with the LMGs and 222 timing.
I think vs OKW you have more of a leash as WC51 and cav rifles can tilt the early game in your favour. Depends on builds I suppose, but there’s a reason Skeletron despite being rank 80 in skill has managed to cheese his way to top 10 USF for months. |
Kubel used to be a problem for USF because of armor when that armor was lower the problem was solved...
Nothing is solved, Kubel is overpowered af right now. You’re literally talking out of your rear end. |