No one answers because Panthers snared they also get to survive because at infantry cant chase them but a snared sherman crawls and is guaranteed kill?
The M4A3 and 76m Shermans are basically just as fast as the Panther (6.4 and 6.5 vs 6.6 speed) with the exception of the Easy 8 with 6.1. Engine damage critical speed penalty is identical for all vehicles. A snared M4A3/76 is just as slow as a snared Panther and infantry can quite easily keep up in either case.
Its the small things as you can see with the stats and hide they know, whys is luchs faster than stuart and kangaroo car?
The Luchs isn't faster than the Stuart or the AEC. It has 6.7 speed while the Stuart has 7 and the AEC has 7.2.
You might want to play some Axis games or at least check facts before throwing around completely biased (and wrong) remarks. |
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Merging Cons into Shocks isn't very effective unless it's on the front line and it can turn an engagement around. Merged Con models won't get Shocktrooper armor which is the main strength of Shocks. |
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I don't really see too much added value in adding a separate ability, along with some possible issues with converting an SP ability to MP or UI issues or questions like what about other units that pick up a flamer. The manual targeting works just fine.
But as seen in my personal patch notes I do agree that the time to set stone buildings on fire is currently way too long to be practical and should be reduced. |
Think you underestimating the Guards mosin or the fact that by vet 1 Commissar get an extra member or over estimate the SO
They get 4/5x Penal SVTs (not Guards Mosin) and a worthless pistol, along with 0.87 target size.
SO gets 3/4x Obers Kar and a pistol / PGren STG 44, along with 0.8 target size.
Veterancy bonuses are roughly the same, but the SO has significantly higher max veterancy DPS at ~ 44,8/20,2 at ranges 10/35 vs the Commissar's 26,6/10,75 along with a slightly smaller target size (0.64 vs 0.67). |
The list is indicator but I have to point out why these units are on the list. from the ones you mentioned:
There are some clear cases (like Pioneers) while others are rather subjective based on gameplay/balance arguments/POVs. For example given how the Commissar has significantly less combat potential than the Sturm Offizier, I think it's fine that it has lower vet requirements.
I would suggest to start with drawing a list of the clear/obvious cases, and then later add the more subjective ones based on the outcome of the discussions. Probably best to create a google spreadsheet with all the vet requirements (and cost, shared vet y/n, etc) so it's easy to make comparisons, although that's going to be quite a lot of work. |
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While I am all for standardizing or adjusting certain veterancy requirements, there are a lot of comparisons in the OP's list that don't really belong there or that don't need to get changed. Sturm Offizier, JLI, M10 vs Jagdpanzer (the latter costs almost twice as much), etc.
It would be nice to refine and compile a proper list though, so there's something to keep in mind in case we ever get to do another patch. I'll post a more detailed comment later. |
Highter ROF means nothing, if a target is not 640HP medium and half of your shots wont penetrate them. If there is prolonged engagement, where heavy tank sits underfire of a TDs and let alone be killed, its just a badplay.
Stug\JP4 are more of a medium tank TDs, which can do very good against them and be cost effective, against heavy tanks they are honestly kinda garbage if you compare them to allied TDs.
There is a post literally 3 posts before yours that proves (with all the stats) that higher ROF does matter, and that it quite easily compensates for the lower penetration. Alpha strikes obviously go in favour of the higher pen TDs, but given how killing or forcing back a heavy generally requires a prolonged engagement, the JP4/StuG are basically just as good as their Allied counterparts on average.
The StuG and JP4 are primarily medium/TD counters, but they can hold their own against heavies just as well simply due to superior raw DPM.
Not to mention that technically stug is not even a TD, I belive it has penetration of a premium medium.
… the StuG and the JP4 have exactly the same penetration. |
Unvetted - best to worst
Vet 0 SU85
7/(220/300)*5.65 = 53.93
Vet 0 JP4
7/(170/289)*5 = 59.5
[…]
Anyway, it's closer than I thought
It's even closer when you use the raw number of shots x reload (so 9.54 becomes 10 shots etc), with ~56.5s vs 60s in this example. Anyway my point was simply that people often think the StuG and JP4 are way worse than Allied TDs versus heavies when this is not really the case, as their higher ROF really does make up for the lack of pen in a prolonged engagement. |
Wait until the soviet player equips both armor bulletins for the KV-1, at that point it's about as survivable as a Tiger, except it's up against Stugs and JP4's instead of SU85's and Jacksons.
Even with 290 armor, the ROF advantage of the JP4 and StuG compensates for the lack of penetration. Theoretical TTK against a 290 armor KV-1 is roughly the same as the TTK of an SU-85 against a Tiger and lower than the Jackson's TTK. Even at vet 3 (when SU-85/Jackson get nearly 100% pen chance) the difference is only marginal.
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@Hannibal can u tell me whats the difference between Okw Pz4 and Ost Pz4?
The OKW P4 (Ausf.J) has skirts from the start which give it a base armor value of 234, while the Ostheer P4 (Ausf.G/H) starts with 180 armor and gets 234 at vet 2. Besides that the J also has better scatter (so it's better versus infantry) and more/better veterancy bonuses.
In regards to Hannibal's comparison, the J's higher base armor means that the KV-1 can't really penetrate it frontally while the J can also not really penetrate the KV-1, so fights between these two usually end up in both just mostly bouncing off each other for a while. |
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