19 May 2020, 13:43 PMKONIUX27
WHEN HAVE I SAID THEY ARE USELESS
can you read
how am i to read THEY HAVE SIGNS WTF!!!!! then?
Thread: Pioneers after early game19 May 2020, 14:04 PM
19 May 2020, 13:43 PMKONIUX27
how am i to read THEY HAVE SIGNS WTF!!!!! then?
Thread: Pioneers after early game19 May 2020, 14:01 PM
19 May 2020, 11:45 AMSerrith
i am not sure how i gave the empression merge is bad at any point of the game. i only said its more risky later on when tanks show up and you try to merge in combat like in the early game. 7th man reduces the likelyhood you loose the squad during merge but it can still happen.
merge is the soviet way of forward reinforcing next to the halftrack, where all other faction can build something. the soviet reinforce point needs to retreat to be able to do it again unike all other reinforce options. Yes you have the stronger squad say guards or penals or weapon team faster or longer on the field at the expense of the field presence of the conscript squad. having a reinforce building wich does not need to resuply models evens this out imo. its asymetry at its best imo.
and if you make all reinforce cost the same you should make the squad size the same. either 6 or 4 men doesnt matter you will still have models of certain squad outpreform others when they suddenly have the same models. 6 con models wont be beating 6 grens model squads any time soon. 6 penals vs 6 pgrens will result in pgrens winning far more engagements. lets make obers 6 men and put them up against guards or para,s. i know how that will turn out.
The reinforce cost is a 1 model basis. 1 gren model is better then 1 con model thats why the gren model is 30 mp and the con model 20 mp. some squads mostly 4 men squads i believe have some justified discounts or otherwise they have absurd reinforce costs. to me personaly reinforce costs are well balanced atm.
As ce's can fight from safer distances their damage is also not very high at those safer distances. pio,s if and thats a big if they can get close or flank a team weapon it needs to go packing. vs just ce's alone they can afford to take some fire.
other then gaining vet pio's and ce's are fine as is.
Thread: Pioneers after early game19 May 2020, 13:27 PM
19 May 2020, 13:07 PMKONIUX27
yeah because they have a sign they dont count?
they either keep inf aways and need sweepers to join. If the territory is yours you keep it longer and can send your inf elsewhere and he needs his sweeper over there.
or the enemy doesnt pay attention and looses a bunch of models or the squad because despite being hit by mines they wont stop until they reach the destination. this as pointed out happens to people who use the tact map a lot to give orders. seen it happen to tightrope.
s mines are situational but far far from usseles.
Thread: Pioneers after early game19 May 2020, 11:17 AM
19 May 2020, 10:05 AMKONIUX27
but they dont have antiinfantry mines, mines arent combat stuff
What are smines then? Anti air mines?
Thread: Pioneers after early game18 May 2020, 12:13 PM
18 May 2020, 08:51 AMOrangePest
I do respect your points and you are a far better player then i will ever be. However i do play enough and study enough high level stream as i can to have an informed opnion on the game.
Ce's can beat grens indeed if you play the card correctly as you say. I cant remember seeing them beat volks though outside rng favoring them without a flamer and stg,s for volks.
Their dps and hp is only 2/3,s of a conscript squad. And that is what they are in combat without a flamer. a vet 2 2/3 strength cons squad tops.
That they sync well with the scout car is great indeed but that lasts 1 or 2 minutes mostly.
Imo the demo is pretty bad right now. Its not a strentgh anymore, there is no use for it outside of cheesing when you are ahead. even then every inf unit can see it from a save distance with minimal effort. you have to go out of your way to hide it. and you know where it cant be placed anymore. That demo's are almost never used says enough.
Pio,s beating main lines takes a lot more effort indeed. They can punish cons rifles etc but only if you get the drop on them indeed. Imo them having better utility makes up for this.
Pio,s sync better with team weapons and esp recrewing them keeping the extra vision range, that lasts the game mostly. that extra vision however small compared to actual scout units allows you to turn your at guns/mg's/inf etc to face the threats slightly faster or get the last shot off to secure the kill on a tank with a pak for example.
the teller while are a big investment for ost, its still cheaper then a demo and is only revealed by sweepers and not by every thing with legs, it doesnt detonate on inf and one shots all lights if they hit it without sweepers present. on average a teller will pay off more then a demo.
to sum my opnion up.
imo ce's combat scale,s to mid game at most, upgraded and vetted main lines and doctrinal inf will decimate them from this point on. they cant build sandbags, mgnests or scout better then a normal mainline. and their demo is a meme at this point. they lost their sync with the scout car at the start of the game at this point in the game. so imo late game they are less impactfull.
pio's combat power is very situational from the start and gets even worse as the game drags on. but their utilities and synergys last the game. imo you dont get pio,s for combat you get them for the latter reasons and repair obviously. every unit can benefit from them however slightly. the tank they fix, the weapon they crew or are next to, heal if needed. and one mine can kill the mid game of allies if your lucky.
Thread: Pioneers after early game18 May 2020, 09:23 AM
18 May 2020, 06:01 AMSerrith
True and merge also becomes more risky later on when tanks arrive. They can reguraly kill 2 models and in some cases just before you merge and cost you the cons squad. But that limited to in combat. For recrewing its really good when you get 7th man.
4 to 7 mp more per model is imo not gamebreaking. It takes seconds to gain that amount of mp. The mp soviets save with merge and cheaper reinforcing goes into replacing vehicles wich for the most part get destroyed easier/faster then axis tanks. This comes from 1v1 perspective ofcourse.
In my experience in the late game pio's just as ce's are not priorities to focus fire on mostly. Only with flamers or when repairing they are and they both will melt away when you do so.
Thread: Pioneers after early game17 May 2020, 18:02 PM
17 May 2020, 11:16 AMKONIUX27
Your forget bunkers and healing and bonus vision xD lol.
Ce's dont have utility early on compared to pio's. That why their combat use lasts a bit longer imo. They dont have the hp rec acc nor dps to do so late game just as pio's. Neither will they have the utility of pio's. Just that they are cheaper. Nothing wrong except both vet very slowly at mid game esp pio's. Shared vet could solve this imo.
Thread: Pioneers after early game17 May 2020, 17:37 PM
17 May 2020, 10:06 AMachpawel
All i said is related to just giving pio's 5 men with nothing to show for it. Would be the same as just giving ce's and cons svt's stock with nothing to show for it.
Soviets are designed to do without them stock just as with nades. For ots its 4 men stock and 5 or more via doctrines only.
I gave you ample examples why pio's deserve a 200 mp price tag. And ce's 170 mp price tag. You just ignore faction traits for both and downplay everthing pio's can do and over value ce's fewer abilities and merge.
You fixate on a 30/4 mp price differene. Wich is regained in a minimal amount of time.
If you pay attention you will see when skills are simaler soviets have less mp to throw around then then the other factions in the late game mostly. You overblow the suposed problem. Ost and owk armour in general has a bigger chance to bounce but that escapes your mind because it means less damage taken wich in turn means less repair time.
Merge is not free. The mp you dont need for teching towards it goes to at nades molly's and healing. However the unit that can do it costs 240mp. You need to reinforce for 20/18 mp per model. You can easely loose the cons during merge making it cost 240 mp. You cant keep the squad that merged on the field mostly. You sacrifice its field presence. It a model swap and not healing as you claim. Its good for sure but not a no brainer as you try to make it out to be. Talking about nonsense. If it was soo good and free of cost or risk it would be used every game all game, but it isent.
And why in hell would you charge grens in vs ce's in cover? Grens quite handely have the long range advantidge.
Once pgrens hit the field pio's dont even need to be up front. Pgrens do a better job fighting at closer ranges then pio's ever will.
Ce's will melt just as pio's will late game. Axis are more long range oriented so even if the ce's can stay back a bit more they still melt the same.
Soviets wipe fine within their design but still wipe less often, cuz almost all their stock wiping power got nerfed hard or removed. To get wiping power such as others have they need doctrines. So does ost need doctrines to get durable infantry.
Just slapping a 5th man because others have it is bad design. That why i am glad cons got 7th man instead of dp28 or svt upgrade stock. It fits their design of quantity over quality and not just copying other factions.
Thread: Pioneers after early game17 May 2020, 06:01 AM
16 May 2020, 22:29 PMKONIUX27
Ce's while slightly better fighting and are cheaper to buy get outdone by pio's in all other engineering/supporting aspects. And pio's are a real threat up close, more then ce's are at range.
Ce's are cheaper for a reason for the thousenth time. And pio,s have more healing reinforcing options available then ce's ever will. Because of this and the fact that ost dont need them up front means they get wiped less. Making the 170/21 vs 200/25 argumant a bit silly.
Soviets dont get ai upgrades and nades by design. This means soviet inf is more durable but far less wipey then ost.
Ost have 5th or 6 man only via doctrines by design. Meaning less durable inf and recrewing team weapons is a bit harder. But they will wipe more then soviets.
Thread: Pioneers after early game16 May 2020, 17:05 PM
16 May 2020, 08:42 AMKONIUX27
just make pios become non veterant 5men squad at vet3 (maybe same with the grens but not sure bout it) or added to t4 tech
No more copy pasting extra men with vet or tech from other factions. Ost has a doctrine for this. Unless cons get svt stock same with ce's. But then its just more mirroring the factions.
So no i dont think ost needs that.
Pio's are fine. Cost preformance wise grens are as well.