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Thread: Rifles overperforming?30 Sep 2019, 14:28 PM Jump back to quoted post30 Sep 2019, 13:15 PMT.R. Stormjäger Which is the long way of telling him what I said a page back about the mp costs being in a different context for each faction due to playstyle, effective ranges, teching etc. He doesn’t listen though, so he’s gonna come back and say “but why should I pay 280mp and ost gets grens for 240mp? It doesn’t make sense!” Maybe, but Vipper's right: there's no progress to be made by hurling insults and accusations of fanboyism. So I'll give the benefit of the doubt and try to treat people like adults. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Vetted 7 man conscripts vs vetted lmg grens..30 Sep 2019, 12:55 PM Jump back to quoted post30 Sep 2019, 12:14 PMJibberJabberJobber Con AT nade has 20 range, with a non-working bulletin. Gren Faust has 30 range, with a bulletin that increases it to 32 range. A main strength of the faction. Volk Faust has 20 range, which IMO makes OKW worst off because of the chance for it to misfire. They all seem to be 15 to me. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Rifles overperforming?30 Sep 2019, 12:41 PM Jump back to quoted post30 Sep 2019, 01:28 AMCODGUY Is there some unit USF has that costs considerably less than OST or OKW's counterpart? I can't think of a single one besides maybe RE vs Strums. I can think of many Axis though that outpreform what USF has. Is it some inalienable right for the Axis factions to get both inexpensive and quality units? High manpower costs on units is a USF thing rather than an Allies thing. Soviet and British units are usually pretty average in terms of price. USF's manpower costs are high for two reasons. The first is their teching: the net manpower cost of the Lieutenant tier is -100. The second is cranking up manpower costs was Relic's preferred solution to balancing USF on release, when Rifles were insanely good and the M20 rush won games by itself. That's why the M20 was a ~350 MP unit for so long. That's why the Tac Support M5 cost 350 MP until two patches back. Patch by patch these costs come down as USF is normalised. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Easy USF fix30 Sep 2019, 12:30 PM Jump back to quoted post30 Sep 2019, 12:27 PMSupport Sapper With that change, if you go 2 rifle then the gap is too big for the 3rd infantry squad, if you go 3 rifle then you will have too many infantry later on. Exactly. This was such a big issue that USF got a teching revamp mainly to fix it. The teching costs can't go up without messing up timings. We'll need more creative solutions to the Officer power spike. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Easy USF fix30 Sep 2019, 12:26 PM Balance is a delicate thing. It doesn't take much to knock a unit (or faction) off the peg one way or the other. Toning down USF needs to be done with care. With Riflemen, we've got two options: Riflemen are pretty meh, with the 200 MP Officer power spike making up the difference. This is what we had before, and USF play became about building as few Rifles as you could get away with. Riflemen are good, and the Officer power spike is toned down accordingly. Currently we have good Riflemen and the Officer power spike, which is a bit much. Cranking up the manpower on the Officer as you suggest tones down the power spike, but it also messes up the USF tech structure. One possible solution is to make the Officer unit only worth 200 MP, then give it an upgrade that cranks it back up to its 300 MP power level. Similarly, any changes to USF fuel income will mess up its carefully timed tech tree and undermine the teching rework. The M20's a simple fix though: ditch the bazooka. That tier has the Lieutenant bazooka, .50 cal AP and the Stuart. It doesn't need an AT vehicle crew too. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Vetted 7 man conscripts vs vetted lmg grens..29 Sep 2019, 21:21 PM Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2019, 13:44 PMmrgame2 I tested on flat green grounds using a triangle path. Select both Grens and cons and move them to a distance in between them. Sure is not scientific, but every time cons reach first clear margin. That's a very error prone method. Try racing them on parallel lines and seeing if one gains on the other. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: British rework?29 Sep 2019, 21:20 PM I particularly like your T2 suggestion. AEC versus a more historical Valentine (it was an Infantry Tank, which weren't built for speed) is a much more interesting decision than AEC versus Bofors. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Rifles overperforming?29 Sep 2019, 19:22 PM Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2019, 17:44 PMCODGUY What's wrong with the comparison? At Vet 0 Volks would still dominate Riflemen behind sandbags despite the more expensive cost of Riflemen. This is totally ignoring Strums too. Riflemen had no discernable advantage over Volks but for some reason were significantly more expensive. It was the dumbest situation. Then Volks would instantly get their 60 munitions StGs and flamenades after teching while USF side techs put upgrades so out of reach that you'd very often see Volks wipe the floor with Riflemen for several minutes into the game. It was a sad sad state and I'm really glad they addresssed it. That's literally what I just said. 280 MP Riflemen were having a harder time vs 260 MP Volks early game at Riflemen's preferred range than they probably should have, so they got a buff to their early game close range performance. Late game, double BAR rifles do as well as you'd expect a 280 MP 120 MU vetted infantry squad to. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Rifles overperforming?29 Sep 2019, 17:09 PM Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2019, 16:59 PMCODGUY They aren't just 280 MP vs 260 and 240. They cost 28 MP to reinforce, cost 150MP/15 fuel to unlock grenades and another 150MP/15 fuel to unlock BARs plus 120 munitions to equip them. This all factors in when I say they are expensive. You can't compare Vet 0 unupgraded Riflemen to Vet 0 unupgraded Volks and then cite upgrade costs. Riflemen with one BAR outgunned StG Volks at all ranges before the buff. Riflemen have never had a scaling problem. 280 MP, 120 MU, vetted up Riflemen have always been worth their cost. The problem was their unupgraded, unvetted performance, which the Garand change seeks to address. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Rifles overperforming?29 Sep 2019, 12:52 PM Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2019, 12:42 PMEsxile Your Idea doesn't make sense, just admit it and move on. Your objection doesn't make sense, just admit it and move on. See? I can complain without any substance to what I'm saying too. Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2019, 12:39 PMKatitof Volks were 10mp more then cons for ages and they have roflstomped them without contest. 20mp difference for mainline is pretty significant. I'd argue that's got more to do with poor balance between Volks and Cons than anything else. In: COH2 Balance