I don't hate it, it's just hard to justify spending the 40 ammo when there's so many other things in recon support that require ammo; support paradrop, greyhound mg / canister shots, BARs for your I&R pathfinders / riflemen, butterfly bombs, zooks / LMG on the paras etc.
I'll try it out when I have an abundance of ammo though, see how it works with the greyhound. Another issue is I generally avoid the M20 and just get a Greyhound currently, as the M20 is great, as are its mines but I avoid teching Lt. most games and just go Captain for the AT gun and rush out a sherman after my Greyhound. Also, it's hard to justify using it with the Greyhound because I don't want to waste time capping points with something I can constantly be on the offensive with. Also I hate having to dump 70 ammo into M20s armor skirt to make it survivable, it's just more ammo I don't really ever have unless I completely avoid getting BARs.
Again, I play mostly team games (2s,3s and 4s) with my friends so apply this as you will, but I personally find teching both officers instead of unlocking the armour techs, paras depending on how dug in Ost player is or if I find the OKW's first truck and side teching for the m20 if I lose my greyhound, usually sometime after armour. I don't get the skirts on the m20 as I'm using it mostly to lay mines and dive for caps with raid. It's boned if it hits a teller with or without the skirts so I'd rather not lose them on top of the unit. Basicly I treat the m20 as disposable when I dive it for a cap idr the MP, but 20 fuel and 40mu is cheap for throwing the enemy off balance should you lose it.
I rarely end up with the munitions for the butterfly bombs or BARs but I generally enjoy the off beat tactics like light car play and what not over meta so I'll admit I'm no top player. For me it's more about having fun than doing the "easy" meta based wins.
And if nothing else having a 40mu capability to snag that neck and cap and have the Los to be able to help defend it.
The ability isn't bad, the commander is just thirsty but damn it's a great support ability, in my opinion of course |
What would it be like swapping the maxim and the DSHK? Then the Soviet have an MG that does what it's supposed to (they would pay for it of course) in their core but can have an ostroppen/m10 style cheap alternative MG in doctrines. I know it's kind of off loading the problem but tbh I'm all about fixing the core, stock units first then addressing weak doctrines |
I really don't get the hate for raid tactics. I get the commander is muni heavy but it's so versatile. I play mainly team games so I get the economy is alot different but it's only 40mu! Tech for an m20 and you have a cheap, fast capping unit that forces the enemy to mine like a Mofo or cache up. Again, it's only 40 mu! |
That's fair, I think the only way they could balance the maxim would be to drop it to a 4 man, which it should as USF/OKW/Brit all can have 5 man squads yet the mgs are 4.
They can't fix the death loop because of mechanical limitations so unfortunately the 6 man is a requirement unless they can somehow otherwise improve durability (since retreating is an options often) . Perhaps increasing the price to reduce spam but increasing range so it's further removed from combat and dropping to 4 men? Or 5?
I think they need to bite the bullet and admit that they can't balance a 6 man MG to the same cost of other mgs and and have it not trash. There is alot of comparison to the 42 and the maxim because they cost the same and the performance difference is astounding. It doesn't work. Make them 5p% more expensive to account for the 50% more men and make it actually do its job. |
I used to think the MG42 was just far too good. But throw a few hundred, or thousand hours into the game and you realize that half the time your MG42 isn't even that useful unless you micro it like a bastard. Allies can flank the shit out of everything with their infantry, and unless you're on the ball the MG42 will be in the soviets hands, which can spell a really bad time for you.
MG42 is fine, the maxim alright, keep in mind it's really hard to take out given the 6 man crew. When the maxim was a pinning machine, it was next to impossible to dislodge it. Cons can always reinforce you, while the MG42 has to run the moment it's flanked or a molotov hits it, nades 1 shot it.. yeah..
MG42 is fine. This is more of a test of your micro skills, and MG's are always better in pairs.
If you land an molotov on an mg42 it means you flanked it and got the chance to stand there for 18 years while Yuri had a flashback of playing ball with his dad as he tried to throw. You can flame nade a maxim frontally with Volks and don't even get the opportunity to retreat because of the death loop.
I agree that the 42 is fine, but saying that the maxim is too is disingenuous. |
Tactics 102.
If they excel at long range but you cant close the gap. Dont fight.
Smoke can do wonders too.
But hey, im not pushing arguments to the extreme just to prove im right. Who cares anyway
So the JLI win the fight by enabling the enemy to not fight.
Smoke is great but it still puts you in range of their grenades. The grenade assault covers their weakest range. |
Yeah like its super overrated too.
A long distance troop rushing in is not suspicious at all. But thats none of my business.
Say, how does one counter long range troops? Do you sit at long range where they Excell or do you try and close?
They can be used from camo and they can be used defensively AS WELL as rushing, which in itself can be effective for the fear of clearing a garrison. They may hop out to avoid the barrage. Tactics 101 here champ. |
Was used on tournament when Overwatch was banned. JLIs provide huge advantage on their own.
Plus, people don't expect the nade volley so you usually get a good one off before they know what commander you locked in and then they are still on a camoing, sprinting squad. It's super overlooked. |
if 20 extra manpower increase to the MG-42 is all thats needed for all MGs (except the maxim) to be balance than thats fine. but when people want that and other MG buffs i dont know if the wehrmacht will have the MG advantage anymore.
Best arc, best vet, best Supression, best aoe Supression, best ROF. Having other mgs suppress wouldn't change the 42 being the best. |
Let me illuminate you son, suppression is the utility part of an HMG, since it gives it a tool use. In other words for peasants to understand, it stop that person from running freely, it will still though retreat and find new ways to push, you just blocked a punch but didnt break it in the proccess. The damage part becomes important when the thing you shoot at has wheels, its behind cover or inside a building. Wow what a impressive information! No concensus needed, because those are facts.
I am not discussing with you, you do it with yourself since you are the only one changing reference frames, arguments and solutions. Cheers mate! Have a wonderful day now
You do g get an MG to counter things in buildings or wheels, there are units specifically for that. You get them to counter things with legs. When you see a 222 you don't go "oh shit, where is my vickers!?!" and when you see a garrison you don't think "fools! In just 8 minutes my maxim will dog you right out of there!"
Yuu have it mixed up. Supression is the units primary role. Being able to damage garrisons or lights is the flavor, the possible bonus, the things that make the units unique. But first and foremost it needs to suppress. |