Yep you're right but the need of a Command Pz.4 depends on you're point of view, for me it is a tank which aim to be a support to your composition, allowing your infantry to better perform in late game and thus negate some of grenadier weakness. If you see the command PZ.4 as a different variant of the P4 with other bonus and malus then yes it should come ealier (I think 6 CP good thought).
The cost of C. PzIV is to high and can not be paid back by reduction in bleed of Grenadiers. In order to do so it would need to arrive allot earlier.
The unit offers little over a regular PzIV in AI has laughable AT and has is not more durable than PzIV.
The unit needs to be looked and have its timing and utility increased. |
Yeah, except for that little fact:
It has no problems backing off from ATGs and its most certainly isn't going to be destroyed or even threatened by PTRS rifles.
See the problem yet?
Elefant and/or JT is a necessity for axis team in large game because they can not deal with allied TDs.
And what you suggest that Allied TD should simply counter everything from kubel to Elefant?
See the problem yet?
I mean, you should, given how you claim SU-85 is op and how you can't deal with it.
If you think that SU-85 is not OP you can argue you case with MOD team instead of me because the decided to nerf.
As for weather I can deal with SU-85 I deal with just fine unlike you, since order for you to deal with them you would have to first install the game. |
Yes making the Aura an active like the soviet urban barrack seems a good idea too.
The CP requirements doesn't really bother me, I don't see the command Pz.4 as a Valentine like unit, and I find the call-in handy, but I can understand your point.
The requirements delay the unit across all Modes and the unit come simply too late especailly since it has max penetration of 55 compared to 120 for valentine.
USF can get a dozer faster than Ostheer can get a C.PzIV. |
The only thing to get indestructible ele is to have a pair of ATGs behind it.
Nothing hardcounters ele on soviet side.
There used to be couple of things, but they were doctrinal mainly and/or removed/made importent against it already.
You pretty much need to completely not know how to play the game and be attacked by much greater force of armor to lose ele.
A TD supported by ATGs couneting armor, works as intended. |
But then what does counter an Elefant? It cannot be countered by T-34 or SU-85, so that leaves you with ZiS-3 and PTRS. ZiS-3 is not very mobile and would take a very long time to chip away at an Elefant, which can just drive away and get repaired. You would also have to protect them from counter-attacks, which you will have to do with zero armor support, because there is an Elefant... As for PTRS, they're not killing an Elefant any time soon.
Well depends on the Mode one plays.
Imo Elefant or not that great without numerous supports and if a team has concerted so many unit in one part of them map the opponent should either attack another side of the map of use artillery on the supporting units.
Things will probably improve once Elefant loses the Stuka...
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I think the aura buff and maybe a slight increase of ROF or scatter buff might be enough, the unit by itself it not bad, just no point to get it over a regular PZ.4 for its price.
ROF is fine.
Point here is that even Valentine has a better gun.
I would rather see change that would include:
Aura split in passive active
Aura scales with vet
Gun similar to Stug-E with range 40
Switchable round to hollow charge for direct fire will relatively low penetration but some deflection damage.
Removal of either CP requirements or tech requirements. |
A 3 man squad isn't a major threat to anybody. Even Pioneers have a good chance at winning that battle, and they cost less. Every model lost is -33% of their firepower. Their cost prevents you from doubling up on them to get makeshift early Airborne.
Both path finder are 4 men squad. The fight better than people claim.
The stats website shows the Scoped M1 as having the exact same stats as the Paratrooper M1 Carbine, with (ironically) moderately lower accuracy.
Check cruzz:
https://coh2db.com/stats/#6
Which they are already, owing to their small squad size. I have no concerns that they will be used as shock troops any time soon.
No they will not be used as shock troops but their are not vulnerable to CQC as they should be. |
I had forgotten all about this. Fair enough then, I was wrong, the developers had elaborated on it in the past.
I would try to argue that in the grand scheme of things, the cheapest and easiest way to deal with a Heavy Panzer is sacrificing a T-34 and ~200 munitions does speak volumes for the effectiveness of other options. Rarely in this game is suiciding a unit the first resort, and their inability to fight an Elefant especially is something I remain concerned about. The Elefant cannot be countered by the SU-85, and T-34-76's take too long to kill it during a flank even if it is not supported (which it will always be supported). Maybe the answer is as simple as spamming as many SU-85's as possible..
A Super heavy TD can not be countered by tanks and TD well that makes sense.
Imagine what would happened if allied stock TD counter counter every axis vehicles from Kubel to Elefant... |
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C Panzer needs a redesign since it has become useless (mostly because of requirements and combat performance) but I expect these change to happen when they look at commanders. |
That would simply be a nerf to an already incredibly niche unit though, and I don't believe any significant part of their cost is in their close range DPS.
I&R Panther spawn before minute 1 equipped with 3 elite weapons available to CP3 units. The carbines are part of their cost.
If they are to be a long-range fighting unit, they could at least out-damage a basic Grenadier squad.
Not if the cost was set at 240. There is a bad habit of trying to make units attractive by increasing their DPS which imo is a mistake. Unit can become attractive by being cheap but bringing something new to the table and the scouting abilities of Pathfinder is enough. Or one could even increase their utility but turning them into sniper counters.
The Vet 3 M1 Garand is roughly on-par with their current Carbine's at close range. Their limited squad size, with one handling a DMR (which should have it's stats altered to also support long range combat) make them inappropriate at close range despite the admirable individual DPS.
If they "inappropriate at close" they do not need close DPS which they pay for. Currently the IR Pathfinder at range 4 have the DPS close to that of riflemen and that make little sense.
I believe the best solution might be to create new M1 Garands along the lines of the ones mentioned, and retool the DMR to have an inverted DPS curve like LMG's. If not, leave the Carbines alone and focus on just inverting the DPS for the DMR instead.
The scoped rifle already has an inverted weapon profile.
Think at the end of day we agree that long range units should be weak at close range. |
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