This will likely be the last mod preview for this patch. The mod preview feedback has been useful, and we feel the update is in a Good Spot™. There will be some minor adjustments prior to the official release.
We will be monitoring some of the more nuanced changes in this patch post-release. We feel certain items will be easier to assess once the update has been live, and more players are testing the changes. Problem items will be addressed in a follow-up patch.
We are planning to release the update in approximately two weeks time.
So this or next week.
There are a couple of units that weren't touched on this mod that were over-nerfed due to being OP in the past, the Soviet 120mm mortar and the Greyhound. Rather than changing the combat stats on these, would the balance team look at just setting the price, pop cap, and possibly timing to fit their current performance? I realize its late in the cycle but the changes to price/pop cap wouldn't affect balance.
For example, the 120mm now does the same damage as any of the 81/82mm mortars, slightly bigger AOE but significantly slower rate of fire. It would probably be worth using if the price and pop cap were the same as the LEIG (270/7). It still fires slower than the LEIG but the AOE is better so seems like they should be priced about the same.
On the Greyhound, the CP requirement makes it come out well after all of the counters to it are available. The fuel price seems a little high also. Timing wise, it seems like it should be Cpt or LT dispatched and start on a 2 minute cooldown. I use them sometimes around other armor for vision (like a 222) but they need vet to be helpful and that can be difficult when they arrive late. |
Yes...right after Ullumulu hits rank 1 with all Allied factions.
Easily the best post of the day! |
Once i can i'll test but it's even less dmg than that. 0.5 dmg reduction. So, atm, it's just 10 per hit on the building.
Moving it to 15 and making it double, you would still need 3 volleys to hit. But remind yourself, that you don't know if a mortar is hitting you or not and since barrage fire faster, you are probably gonna react after the 2nd volley is already hitting or in the air.
Thats only if you are not actually aiming correctly at all as well.
Since so many here think this is a good idea and you're going to test it, please test it in a way that would simulate a real 4v4 test. Use Port of Hamburg for your test. The game usually starts with 2 players from each team fighting over each fuel. If you are facing double Ost, there will be a minimum of 2 mortars, but often 3 since a couple of MG42's can lock down all the approaches.
Put a squad of riflemen on the south side of the wall by the south fuel in green cover. Test first with 2 mortars barraging it. Then repeat the test with three mortars firing at the same squad. How long does the squad last? Repeat the test with barrages on both the 50cal and the 57mm.
I'm pretty sure this would make most of the maps in the 4v4 rotation unplayable as allies. The people jumping on this bandwagon also want tanks excluded because they don't want to face the increased modifier with from a HE Sherman. |
Because i already wasted time putting the AoE values before i left.
I'm sure anyone else can put the scatter values for the rest of the units.
This is what i have from another post
120mm is not worth it, if you have T2 set up. You hit once in a blue moon, more so with it's slow RoF. If you need a mortar and don't have T2, you might save the 160 worth of building the tier.
Thanks! I thought it shot slower but couldn't find it.
Even if you don't currently have T2, it probably would be better to build T2 and the regular mortar. The 120 still eats up 10? pop, so in a long game it could have as much as 300 mp more of upkeep. Add in the fact that it doesn't have a vet 0 flare and the unit is all-around garbage.
I normally have better experience with the Ost mortar than any of the allied ones, but don't get too excited about it. The soviet one has a very useful flare while the USF one is still competent at clearing garrisons and delivering smoke. It's a little disappointing that they always use mortar duels with an equal number of OST mortars but it isn't game-breaking.
I think the LEIG needs a small accuracy nerf. One is annoying and forces a lot of retreats. Two of them are pretty good at wiping squads, especially team weapons like mortars. |
Hi all I know I throw this idea out now and again but with a new patch shaking up this and that I'd like to resubmit it for discussion
The idea: cons cost little and bring little more than capping power
You pay for additional bits and bobs to make them more what you need, at an additional cost. Not too unlike the PE of coh f
As always, the primary goal is discussion. Nothing here is set in stone, I'd like to hear what yall have to say
The basic template:
200mp
6 men, 4 rifles
Sandbags
Merge
Oorah becomes vet 1
...
I don't think this would work well because of how Cons perform across the different game modes. Having 200 mp cons would be too cheap in 1v1's. Players with good micro would cover the map with them. Also, making Oorah vet 1 would make it much harder for Cons to get to vet 1, at least in larger team games. Right now, you can use it sometimes to get outside the arc of MG's and not get suppressed. Not having it on maps like Crossing or Red Ball means that cons will spend even more time getting suppressed and retreating.
Moving some of their Vet 3 RA bonus to vet 1 would help. They bleed a lot of manpower before vet 3. Usually grens are starting to get their LMG's by that time so it wouldn't upset balance too much.
Decreasing the side-tech costs a little more would help also, and not significantly affect balance.
Lastly, most squads like Grens, PF's, etc, can still pick up a weapon after they do their upgrade. It would be helpful if a 7-man con squad could still pick up a weapon (while still making Mobilize and doctrinal weapon upgrades mutually exclusive).
|
AoE:
UKF mortar emplacement, OH mortar, SU 82mm, Mortar HTs.
120mm barrage:
R: 6 / 113.10
N: 1.1 / 68 / 3.80
M: 3.5 / 40 / 38.48
F: 4.5 / 20 / 63.62
Heat: same but with this dmg profiles 160/24/8.
You didn't post the scatter values or ROF. I've tried a 120 a couple of times in the current patch and it rarely hits anything, and doesn't seem to really do much. The AOE is larger but it seems so inaccurate that it doesn't matter. The pop cap and cost are also completely out of line with its performance. |
and even without barrage it outrange every axis mortar with this 5 more range. and win easily vs them. and dont bleed your manpower and even can stand a full attack---where an ISG would have problem (no retreat, slow turning etc)
plus: what cost 2 mortars / 2 ISG?
You play mainly OKW and are still whining about mortar pits? Two non-doctrinal ISG's take down a mortar pit quickly. Mortar pits haven't been effective for several patches. Even with that, sim city is still getting nerfs for some reason. |
You never played 1v1 vs soviets when they were OP then. 90% of top players thought demos were OP. I haven't heard a single top player complain about schreck blobs recently.
The maxim is not THAT bad. It's semi decent when you use sustained fire vs blobs. It's bad vs spaced squads. I still don't see why demos should get any sort of buff. They can still 1 shot any squad when they're on garrisons. Axis factions don't get that luxury, and only the soviets can do it nondoc. If the arguement is that top players don't use free squad wipe tools because they're situational or lazy it doesn't seem like they should be buffed. If that were the case, "booby traps" should all be buffed because they're rarely used as well.
Shreck blobs are back in 4v4's. If you really doubt this, play some random 4v4's as allied. I see them more often with Pgrens than Pf's. The Pgrens work better than PF's due to their bundle grenade. I've had a lot of MG's decrewed because the Pgrens were still able to close to within grenade range even with the MG firing on them. Standard infantry, even with LMG's, isn't much of a deterrent. Grenades are helpful, but having to pay the side tech costs means puts your armor behind. Assault sections or Shocks do work well. Pack howies or Scotts are the best USF counters. It will be interesting to see what happens when those are nerfed. The boost to short range DPS on rifles might help.
A group of three Pgrens will insta-wipe any standard allied medium. That's only 300 munitions and you can use it over and over. The biggest part of the problem is how cheap shreks have become. Players have complained until the price of shreks is the same as the price of bazooka's or Piats, but you get 50% more damage and 50% more penetration so that even heavies are at risk to shrek blobs. The price should be raised to at least 70, maybe 75, and the drop rate put to .33.
I don't agree with bringing back demo's in their old form. It was more toxic to gameplay than snipers. I wish they would have made demo's detectable by infantry at 20-30 range instead of the white circle. Demo's plus a regular mine used to work as the Soviet version of the teller and were really good for preventing Panther dives. |
So what you're saying is OST is undefeatable. Why doesn't that play out ingame?
I haven't seen anywhere that Mazianni claimed that OST is undefeatable. You're the one twisting his words and getting snippy. Most of us expect Vipper to go full retard. We don't expect the Director of Moderation to join him. You really ought to step away from the keyboard for awhile. |
rifle getting nerfed ?
You think rifles are late game crutch units for USF in 4v4's? |
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