Can people please stop drawing conclusions based on one single test. Some things in the game, like scatter, are very dependent on RNG and results can vary wildly. One test does not prove anything. It is very, very globally indicative at best. For all we know it might as well be the worst RNG roll and give the completely wrong picture (like with that KV-1 hull down test).
To draw a proper conclusion, the number of tests would have to be at least 50-100 to get a decent sample size. Or preferably a lot of experience using them ingame (because of realistic scenarios).
It hasn't worked well in two of the three times I've tried it. The likelihood of me, or anyone else, trying it another 47 times to meet your minimum criterion is nil. It's around 380 mp/20 fuel to get the first one, which is a too much of a gamble..
If the balance team was going to nerf it, they should have buffed the USF mortar so that it is competitive with the Ost mortar, then turned the Pack howie into a howie (don't nerf scatter, make the barrage more like six shells, take out direct fire). USF didn't need two units that overlapped, it needed two units with defined roles that could actually do their defined roles.
|
This is why I asked people about their Pak experience after the patch. In my opinion the Pak howie change of increased scatter just increased RNG which is a bad approach, this combined with 20% damage reduction on vet3 grens makes pak howie an unreliable and expensive investment for 340 MP or whatever it costs.
I've tried it a few times since the patch. I had one that had a lot of good luck and got to vet 3 with 21 kills in a 4v4. Most of the time it did next to nothing. It still gets wiped easily (a problem that I don't have with LEIG's) but now doesn't do much even when it is up. I did have a MG42 almost get wiped by a Pack Howie. It only got hit because I was repositioning it. Had I left in in place the Pack howie would've missed comfortably.
If they made it an exact copy of the LEIG it would be a significant buff at this point. I've had double LEIG get close to 60 kills. Those work really well with the newly improved Falls.
I don't understand the mentality behind some of the decisions that are made. Somehow, the USF mortar needs to be worse than the OST mortar, while having about the same cost and pop cap. The justification is that OST needs to be stationary, implying that somehow USF never needs cover or to be stationary. It's okay that the OST mortar and the LEIG hard counter the USF mortar but not okay that the Pack Howie could counter them. |
snip
PPSH cons are okay. You'd never get a significant number of people to agree to give them 7 models. I play a lot of Soviets and wouldn't give them Mobilize Reserves.
I would give PTRS cons the Mobilize Reserves upgrades. Their AI is terrible so you don't have to worry about them beating any other infantry, possibly excluding Pioneers, and they often have to leave cover to shoot at vehicles anyway so they wouldn't get the cooldown bonus on the few rifles they have. PTRS cons get wiped often so the 7th model would help them survive a bit better. This would only affect Tank Hunters which is a bit of a meme currently. I'd also allow 7-man con squads to pick up PTRS's, assuming that they get the gimped version anyway. |
I don't think the Falls need to lose the Faust, they had it before the patch and it was fine then. However they were outclassed by nearly all other Elite Infantry, so that was their problem. The nukenade could be replaced by regular nade; nukenade from stealth can be a real bitch. Considering they're squishier than Obers I think they need to keep the Faust to help them against vehicles, which might chase them down and butcher them retreating otherwise.
So you like the suggestion then? (Not really super clear) because currently they have the same range and 'less uneven' implies it'd be a better dynamic. I think it would be a good change - ISU kills infantry at incredible ranges, and beats up most tanks, while Jagd is the only unit in the game able to really scare it off, but sacrifices all performance against infantry (atleast after its most recent nerf it sure does.)
Totally agree, especially the smaller-crew ones paired with the new Heavy buff makes them really useless.
AT gun wall will always be vulnerable to artillery, which I'm fine with, even with the proposed change and they'd be more akin to the 5-6 man AT guns. Also, 4/0.875 is still only 4.57, not even the health of 5 men (and remember the 4 are generally more clustered up than larger AT guns too), so that kind of change isn't really enormous. Could even be made larger.
I played several games as Soviets after the patch until I ran into someone who rekt me using Luftwaffe Ground Forces. He/she parachuted in behind MG's, dropped Falls on retreat paths to get wipes, etc, etc.
After seeing that, I've mostly been playing OKW with LGF and been enjoying the game much more.
Having falls parachute in at 2 cp is a problem. You can often parachute in behind a MG and if they don't notice and retreat right away, you can launch the tactical nuke for only 40 muni's and end up with a gently used MG. There are a lot of maps where you can shut down team weapon play. Falls has always had the faust and I don't think that taking it away would make much of a difference. Before the patch I thought they were overpriced and squishy. Now they seem too good. |
True, the King Tiger was legendary. Just ask IL2 pilots who didn’t even need fighter escorts after Bagration and just carped bombed these trashcans to death.
As for the kill death ratio, what are you? 15? Have you actually read anything on WW2? You think a k/d ratio matters when your logistics are dead, you get stuck in the mud, you are literally impossible to hide and you have the mobility of a turtle?
Stop typing legendary and go on amazon to buy some books. I recommend starting with David Glantz, he’s done some great overview work on the Eastern front.
I read somewhere that German's armor "K/D" was something like 1.2 to 1 in the last year. Hardly the stuff of legend. I don't think they had much of anything left in the west after the collapse of the Falaise Pocket. After transferring armor in from the East, they lost it all again in the Battle of the Bulge. Contrary to popular belief, they didn't fare all that well against the Americans once the Americans became a little more experienced.
COH2 distorts reality in many ways. The M10 and M36 could one shot a Tiger or Panther. In fact, that was probably about the only way they did it because if the first shot didn't penetrate, they were likely running for their lives at that point.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3zd1f9/what_was_the_actual_kd_ratio_of_german_ww2_armor/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Arracourt
All that said, this is a game, not a simulation.
|
I used this doctrine extensively in the past and I moved on. I think the lack of tank kills it. I’d suggest:
0CP T34/85 (built at T4)
2CP Conscript tank hunter package (100 muni: 4 ptrs39s, camo, can plant light AT mines, grenade assault)
4CP TMDB heavy mines (70 muni: immobilises vehicle)
4CP Camouflage (AT guns and tanks can camouflage but must remain immobile)
9CP Mark Target
This is the best suggestion so far. Maybe add a few things to make it more worthwhile. I don't think the above would beat Guard Motor.
0CP T34/85 (built at T4)
2CP Conscript tank hunter package (100 muni: 4 ptrs39s, camo, can plant light AT mines, grenade assault) (maybe add building tank traps, as it would help make the mines more likely to be worthwhile)
4CP TMDB heavy mines (70 muni: immobilises vehicle) Camouflage (AT guns and tanks can camouflage but must remain immobile) (combine the mines and camo)
9CP Mark Target
12CP PTAB Bombing run (lower the cost to 140 to reflect current damage)
One other possibility would be to add Guards instead of the Bombing run. Guards and tank hunters work well together. The bombing run would probably be needed in 4v4's though. |
You can tell which players in this thread are good and which aren't.
Ignoring that the Maxim can pack up and deploy instantly, thus reacting to flanks much better than the MG42, is definitely the sign of being bad, or just incredibly biased.
The irony in this post is incredible. Maxim times were nerfed many patches ago. |
Yeah, as the previous guys said, Maxim spam actually was viable or even dominant at high level tournament games. It was despised by many, I believe mainly due to 3 reasons:
- Playing against mass MGs (of any sort) is annoying.
- Forgoing the core infantry units for what is supposed to be a supporting unit just feels wrong.
- It really was dominant. Now, any dominant strategy will get its share of hate, but this one felt incredibly cheesy due to points 1. and 2..
And due to this Maxim spam became sort of a meme, which I guess it at least part of the reason why a player gets more easily accused of that, rather than MG42 spam.
+1
I'd add that part of what was annoying about maxim spam was that you could flank the first maxim, then find your flanking squad being fired on by another maxim, then flank it only to have it get fired on by another maxim. It was the fact that the maxims replaced infantry that made it so annoying. No matter how many flanks, there was always one more maxim. OKW had lots of problems with it.
|
One of the main problems with the design of Fallschimhager is that they have not real weakness.
Other high damage infantry units are either only good at one range like Shocktroops being only good at close range or Obersoldaten being good at long range or have a lack of anti tank weapons like Paratroopers, Obersoldaten or Shock troops.
The easiest solution to give Fallschimjager a direct counter would be to remove the Panzerfaust. Now they can still be really good at all ranges like they are now, but still directly counterable if unsupported.
They infiltrate anywhere at 2 cp with a full squad. I don't remember how much of a discount Soviet T2 got to make if "viable" or whatever, but no amount of discount makes it viable when OKW can just parachute in behind a maxim with much better infantry than the Cons you would have with T2. |
https://www.coh2.org/topic/96564/updated-numeric-veterancy-mod-english
This one is more updated. Strafniki is still working on updating the mod for the most recent patch sept 2019, but other than that it is up to date. Yes it works in automatch and online.
Thanks! |
Relic Entertainment
