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Why USF so bad in tournaments?

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22 Aug 2019, 12:01 PM
#141
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1962 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 11:50 AMddd
Its 280mp and you would get free weapon racks and nades (300mp). Since you dont need to factor in officer squad, you can open with 4 rifles without murdering upkeep. Thats a buff.


4x rifles + 200mp tech + 50mp tech = 1370 manpower for 4 squads and light vehicle tech and both side techs, one of which (grenades) you usually do not need.

Or 4x rifles + 200mp tech + 200mp tech = 1520 manpower for 4 squads and both support weapons techs and side techs.

versus

3x rifles + free officer + 200mp tech + 50mp tech = 1090 manpower for 4 squads and tech and you can choose to only unlock Weapon Racks (1090 + 150 = 1240 manpower).

2x rifles + free officer + 200mp tech + free officer + 200mp tech = 960 manpower for 4 squads and support weapons tech, 50mp more if you want light vehicles (which you don't necessarily need in team games), and you can choose to only unlock Weapon Racks (960 + 150 = 1110 manpower).


Now I don't know about you, but I'd rather take the latter two and fight without grenades, and use the manpower I save to get an M2HB or something.
ddd
22 Aug 2019, 12:21 PM
#142
avatar of ddd

Posts: 520 | Subs: 1



4x rifles + 200mp tech + 50mp tech = 1370 manpower for 4 squads and light vehicle tech and both side techs, one of which (grenades) you usually do not need.

Or 4x rifles + 200mp tech + 200mp tech = 1520 manpower for 4 squads and both support weapons techs and side techs.

versus

3x rifles + free officer + 200mp tech + 50mp tech = 1090 manpower for 4 squads and tech and you can choose to only unlock Weapon Racks (1090 + 150 = 1240 manpower).

2x rifles + free officer + 200mp tech + free officer + 200mp tech = 960 manpower for 4 squads and support weapons tech, 50mp more if you want light vehicles (which you don't necessarily need in team games), and you can choose to only unlock Weapon Racks (960 + 150 = 1110 manpower).


Now I don't know about you, but I'd rather take the latter two and fight without grenades, and use the manpower I save to get an M2HB or something.


Yup, you just proved that free side tech is clearly better. Your first example shows that 4 rifles + free nades and racks is less manpower than current build of 3 rifles + free officer + nades and racks. Thats most popular 1v1 build (minus nades, but free nades is advantage) and its not even factoring fuel advantage.
22 Aug 2019, 12:53 PM
#143
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2609 | Subs: 1



4x rifles + 200mp tech + 50mp tech = 1370 manpower for 4 squads and light vehicle tech and both side techs, one of which (grenades) you usually do not need.

Or 4x rifles + 200mp tech + 200mp tech = 1520 manpower for 4 squads and both support weapons techs and side techs.

versus

3x rifles + free officer + 200mp tech + 50mp tech = 1090 manpower for 4 squads and tech and you can choose to only unlock Weapon Racks (1090 + 150 = 1240 manpower).

2x rifles + free officer + 200mp tech + free officer + 200mp tech = 960 manpower for 4 squads and support weapons tech, 50mp more if you want light vehicles (which you don't necessarily need in team games), and you can choose to only unlock Weapon Racks (960 + 150 = 1110 manpower).


Now I don't know about you, but I'd rather take the latter two and fight without grenades, and use the manpower I save to get an M2HB or something.


You´re highlighting yourself the problem rooted inside USF faction, the faction is balanced around having 2 free squads while this assessment is definitively not true for any other.
22 Aug 2019, 13:13 PM
#144
avatar of GilBang

Posts: 5

What about lowering the LT tech time and increasing the side tech time?

Not sure about the exact timings, but I feel im regularly matched 3 rifles versus 3 grens + hmg or 4 volks and sturm.

22 Aug 2019, 14:56 PM
#145
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1294

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Aug 2019, 21:54 PMddd


Can you stop with this bullshit? OKW has free weapon upgrades and grenades and shwerer, OST has free weapon upgrades and grenades, if free officer is such a problem for USF, change it for free grenades and weapon upgrades. It will be a buff.


No, make Grenadiers and Volks have to get to vet 1 before they can snare, eliminate their current Vet 1 bonus, and make them have to pay for weapon racks and grenades. Also, no more upgrading in the field. Make them retreat and pick it up at the base. Do that and I'd gladly give up the free officer.

Also, since AT rifle nades have roughly a 40% chance to pen the front armor of a Panther or Tiger but Panzerfausts have about a 90% chance to pen a Sherman, the prices of the snares need adjusting. They shouldn't get this extra 50% free so the cost of the faust clearly needs to go up by 50%.

Is this ridiculous? Yes, almost as ridiculous as the interminable free officer response to every argument.

The LT tier and weapon racks are 200/35 plus 150/15 for a total of 350/50. Taking out the cost of the LT, the price would be 70/50. Adjust the cost to something like 100/40 which unlocks the weapon rack and gives USF the option to purchase the LT or MG's. Combine the captain tier with grenades and do the same. This would eliminate the power spike when the captain or LT hits the field. The tech time should probably be lowered for the tier unlocks and increased for the side vehicle unlock so that Stuarts or AA HT's don't arrive too early.

22 Aug 2019, 15:11 PM
#146
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 344



No, make Grenadiers and Volks have to get to vet 1 before they can snare, eliminate their current Vet 1 bonus, and make them have to pay for weapon racks and grenades. Also, no more upgrading in the field. Make them retreat and pick it up at the base. Do that and I'd gladly give up the free officer.


>> You can't remove Gren faust since Pak is locked behind T2.

>> Maybe acceptable about Volks on the move STG that also improves all range DPS but not the static, 2 hour aim Gren LMG. I don't get why you people are so whiny about LMG-42 upgrade on a 4 man squad.

>>Agreed on Rifle nade killing a vet slot. Maybe give it with the T1 or T2 unlock like OST can be good. But those unlock costs will need to be adjusted since the total costs needs to be same with other factions.
22 Aug 2019, 15:27 PM
#147
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2609 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 15:11 PMJilet


>> You can't remove Gren faust since Pak is locked behind T2.


I think we could since pzgrenshreck are available without T2 :wave:
22 Aug 2019, 15:28 PM
#148
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1294

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 15:11 PMJilet


>> You can't remove Gren faust since Pak is locked behind T2.

>> Maybe acceptable about Volks on the move STG that also improves all range DPS but not the static, 2 hour aim Gren LMG. I don't get why you people are so whiny about LMG-42 upgrade on a 4 man squad.

>>Agreed on Rifle nade killing a vet slot. Maybe give it with the T1 or T2 unlock like OST can be good. But those unlock costs will need to be adjusted since the total costs needs to be same with other factions.


I was being somewhat sarcastic in that part of the post. If you made the faust not available until vet 1, OST would get utterly destroyed by clown cars with flamers. On a more serious note, one of the Riflemen's vet bonuses, snare, is just something that the other faction's mainline infantry get free and without vet, even though Rifles are more expensive.
22 Aug 2019, 16:00 PM
#149
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 344

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 15:27 PMEsxile

I think we could since pzgrenshreck are available without T2 :wave:


Then give 120 muni for double schrecks and get blazed by allied infantry without your LMG42. Try it for yourself if you can play against a universal carrier with vickers. :loco:
22 Aug 2019, 16:03 PM
#150
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 344



I was being somewhat sarcastic in that part of the post. If you made the faust not available until vet 1, OST would get utterly destroyed by clown cars with flamers. On a more serious note, one of the Riflemen's vet bonuses, snare, is just something that the other faction's mainline infantry get free and without vet, even though Rifles are more expensive.


Agreed until bold. But rifles are expensive for a reason. Their model per stats are superior to penals. Rifles sacrifice 1 model for 20mp to differantiate from penals. Giving them AT nade behind either/both LT or CPT for free can solve their problems vs Luchs/222 etc. But I relly doubt what to do with the now empty vet1 slot considering their godly other vet bonuses. Maybe split vet3 between vet1 and vet3 ?
22 Aug 2019, 16:28 PM
#151
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1279 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 16:03 PMJilet


...Agreed until bold. But rifles are expensive for a reason. Their model per stats are superior to penals...quote]

I want to play that version of the game.
22 Aug 2019, 16:44 PM
#152
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1294

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 16:03 PMJilet


Agreed until bold. But rifles are expensive for a reason. Their model per stats are superior to penals. Rifles sacrifice 1 model for 20mp to differantiate from penals. Giving them AT nade behind either/both LT or CPT for free can solve their problems vs Luchs/222 etc. But I relly doubt what to do with the now empty vet1 slot considering their godly other vet bonuses. Maybe split vet3 between vet1 and vet3 ?


I was comparing the cost of Rifles to Volk (or Grens for that matter).

Here is a comparison of the total vet bonuses. Explain why do Rifles cost 280 and Volks cost 250. Volks get much better accuracy, cooldown and reload bonuses for a worse RA bonus. Passive healing versus the ability to throw grenades slightly more often, especially when you have no munitions for grenades anyway?

Rifles Vet Bonuses:

Unlocks the 'Anti-Tank Rifle Grenade' ability
-38% received accuracy
-20% weapon cooldown
+30% accuracy
-50% ability recharge time
25% grenade range


Volks
-20% received accuracy
-40% weapon cooldown
+45% accuracy
Passive Healing,
+20% sight range,
-30% reload

22 Aug 2019, 17:03 PM
#153
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1962 | Subs: 3

Here is a comparison of the total vet bonuses. Explain why do Rifles cost 280 and Volks cost 250. Volks get much better accuracy, cooldown and reload bonuses for a worse RA bonus. Passive healing versus the ability to throw grenades slightly more often, especially when you have no munitions for grenades anyway?

Rifles Vet Bonuses:

Unlocks the 'Anti-Tank Rifle Grenade' ability
-38% received accuracy
-20% weapon cooldown
+30% accuracy
-50% ability recharge time
25% grenade range


Volks
-20% received accuracy
-40% weapon cooldown
+45% accuracy
Passive Healing,
+20% sight range,
-30% reload


Those veterancy bonuses were changed years ago. The current ones are:

Riflemen
Vet 1: AT grenade
Vet 2: -23% RA, -20% cooldown
Vet 3: +25% grenade range, -50% cooldown on abilities, -15% RA, +30% accuracy

Volksgrenadiers
Vet 1: -10% RA
Vet 2: +30% accuracy, -20% cooldown
Vet 3: -14% RA
Vet 4: +7 sight range when in cover
Vet 5: passive self healing
22 Aug 2019, 17:46 PM
#154
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 344

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 16:03 PMJilet


...Agreed until bold. But rifles are expensive for a reason. Their model per stats are superior to penals...quote]

I want to play that version of the game.


Than check their stats and get amazed because you are playing that game.
22 Aug 2019, 17:48 PM
#155
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 344



I was comparing the cost of Rifles to Volk (or Grens for that matter).

...


Sander gave you the current numbers now my man. And also do not forget US gets the ambo to mobile heal/reinforce which OKW can't except for Fuersturm.
22 Aug 2019, 17:56 PM
#156
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3970



I was comparing the cost of Rifles to Volk (or Grens for that matter).

Here is a comparison of the total vet bonuses. Explain why do Rifles cost 280 and Volks cost 250. Volks get much better accuracy, cooldown and reload bonuses for a worse RA bonus. Passive healing versus the ability to throw grenades slightly more often, especially when you have no munitions for grenades anyway?

Rifles Vet Bonuses:

Unlocks the 'Anti-Tank Rifle Grenade' ability
-38% received accuracy
-20% weapon cooldown
+30% accuracy
-50% ability recharge time
25% grenade range


Volks
-20% received accuracy wrong
-40% weapon cooldown wrong
+4%5 accuracy wrong
Passive Healing, right
+20% sight range, wrong
-30% reload wrong

>reading the pacth notes
>being a fan boy
chose one :romeoHype:
22 Aug 2019, 18:32 PM
#157
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1294

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 17:48 PMJilet


Sander gave you the current numbers now my man. And also do not forget US gets the ambo to mobile heal/reinforce which OKW can't except for Fuersturm.


The current list looks much more reasonable. I assumed that the veterancy thread was up to date.
22 Aug 2019, 18:43 PM
#158
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1294

>reading the pacth notes
>being a fan boy
chose one :romeoHype:


Pot, meet kettle. Starting with your name, you're probably one of the worst fan boys on this site - bad enough that you can't distinguish between a fan boy and someone who wants all the factions to be competitive in all game modes.
22 Aug 2019, 19:33 PM
#159
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3970



Pot, meet kettle. Starting with your name, you're probably one of the worst fan boys on this site - bad enough that you can't distinguish between a fan boy and someone who wants all the factions to be competitive in all game modes.
u know u could check my post history right ?

btw do u play ww2 game and don't know ww2 memes ? come on man :snfPeter:
22 Aug 2019, 20:53 PM
#160
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1294

u know u could check my post history right ?

btw do u play ww2 game and don't know ww2 memes ? come on man :snfPeter:


No, I don't check your post history nor spend time keeping on top of memes. Your point?
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