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Possible commander revamp candidates

6 Aug 2019, 00:25 AM
#41
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1



Rifle Company is the worst in team Games :snfCHVGame:

Mechanized would be fine if the shermans could call down arty like the WC51 similar to Elite armor's Panzer Commander...or actually exactly the same as that one, it would be good. I Do agree cav rifles should stay there, but maybe a 2 thompson upgrade on rifle company may be okay though.

I think some type of different weapon upgrade is the most important component of a Rifle company revamp. People may not want lmgs or bars for the 400th game in a row.


I like this idea.
6 Aug 2019, 04:39 AM
#42
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



I don't think it would be OP. The company would be focused around rifleman after all and commanders with lots of early abilities have a worse late game.

On sidenote. I think a ranger carbine upgrade could be good for the rifle doctrine.

Replaces 5 M1 Garands with 5 Ranger M1 Carbines for 60 muni. Locks out weapon rack upgrades.

This upgrade would give Rifleman a dps boost at all ranges while keeping the their inherent weaknesses. Its also different then even more commanders with 1919's.

Or you could just get a BAR and have an objectively better squad. Problem with 5 carbines is a) that's wayyy too weak for 60 muni and 2 slots and b) BAR'd squads keep more of their DPS when they lose models because like half their DPS or something is coming from the one (or two) BAR(s), so even when they drop models they still have a ton of DPS, but with carbines it'd be a linear reduction with each model drop. That's one of the things that makes weapons like BARs and LMGs so good.
6 Aug 2019, 06:05 AM
#43
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498


  • and one of the Luftwaffe doctrine
    should be reworked

    I personally would prefer "Luftwaffe Supply" - it could give the mod team the chance to include Wehr Falls


How about inlocuding the Luftwaffe field officer as well? It would be different from the one found in the Theater of War missions, removing panzerfaust but gaining the ability to call in medical supplies, Fragmentation bombing replaced with Incendiary bombing (these would free up the two required commander slots to include the Officer and Falls), Recon replaced with Smoke bombs and Stuka Close Air Support replaced with Concentrated fire (the aura ability found on Arty officers).
As for the Falls, they would deploy with rifles and can be upgraded with Stormtrooper Mp40s for free and Fg42s (on top of rifles or smgs) for like 60 munis. This upgrade system would represent the equipment problems Falls had at Crete.
6 Aug 2019, 12:14 PM
#44
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3


Or you could just get a BAR and have an objectively better squad. Problem with 5 carbines is a) that's wayyy too weak for 60 muni and 2 slots and b) BAR'd squads keep more of their DPS when they lose models because like half their DPS or something is coming from the one (or two) BAR(s), so even when they drop models they still have a ton of DPS, but with carbines it'd be a linear reduction with each model drop. That's one of the things that makes weapons like BARs and LMGs so good.


1. Make it a cheap techless 45 munitions upgrade that comes at 1 CP.
2. Gives 4 elite carbines.
3. Only takes up 1 weapon slot.

Now it gives a lot of early momentum, but your rifles will be slightly weaker lategame than with double BAR's.
6 Aug 2019, 12:24 PM
#45
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



How about inlocuding the Luftwaffe field officer as well? It would be different from the one found in the Theater of War missions, removing panzerfaust but gaining the ability to call in medical supplies, Fragmentation bombing replaced with Incendiary bombing (these would free up the two required commander slots to include the Officer and Falls), Recon replaced with Smoke bombs and Stuka Close Air Support replaced with Concentrated fire (the aura ability found on Arty officers).
As for the Falls, they would deploy with rifles and can be upgraded with Stormtrooper Mp40s for free and Fg42s (on top of rifles or smgs) for like 60 munis. This upgrade system would represent the equipment problems Falls had at Crete.


I like this idea. Many of the strafe could be tied to the officer rather than off map which could also mean they could be buffed as they are not global but instead localized, meaning they could come in quicker. More active play, less annoyingly OP or UP depending on distance from edge of map.

With Soviet paras having a vet strafe too I think it could open up great play with precedent
6 Aug 2019, 13:18 PM
#46
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

OKW Lutwaffe Ground Forces : Needs needs thematic changes and Falls to be buffed in terms of survivability. While they are an alternative to Obers they perform nowhere near Obers.

USF Rifle : There is too much wrong in this and seriously needs a rewamp. I don't have the time now tho.

Wehrmacht Mechanized Assault : While Elite Troops & Str. Reserves get 11 CP Tiger Ace this guy gets Tiger at 13 CP while OKW gets 5 vet ceiling Tiger for 9 CP. Connect this dudes Tiger with T4 and make it 9CP as OKW.
6 Aug 2019, 13:39 PM
#47
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

At this point revamping the top pick commander and toning them down will probably be far more effective than buffing another seldomly picked commander.

Nerfing increase the meta commander pool.
6 Aug 2019, 14:05 PM
#48
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Aug 2019, 13:39 PMVipper
At this point revamping the top pick commander and toning them down will probably be far more effective than buffing another seldomly picked commander.

Nerfing increase the meta commander pool.


Do you really think people choose Festung Support without any changes if Jaeger Armor is nerfed? Will people choose Firestorm without changes only because specops will be nerfed?
No they wont.

Its legit to nerf meta commanders but 2nd or 3rd tier commanders will not be more attractive if they are broken like Firestorm/Festung Support/ Soviet Defense etc. These commanders need to be more attractive too.
6 Aug 2019, 14:08 PM
#49
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

There will always be meta commanders, because always something is better in given game mode.

You'll nerf current meta commanders, new meta commanders that'll be 90% of the time picks will replace them.

That's how RTS games work, there is high end competitive meta and then there are casual and mid level builds.
6 Aug 2019, 15:02 PM
#50
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Do you really think people choose Festung Support without any changes if Jaeger Armor is nerfed? Will people choose Firestorm without changes only because specops will be nerfed?
No they wont.

Its legit to nerf meta commanders but 2nd or 3rd tier commanders will not be more attractive if they are broken like Firestorm/Festung Support/ Soviet Defense etc. These commanders need to be more attractive too.

Let me explain this with an hypothetical example example:

Lets say special op is 120% OP commander. The commander will dominate the meta unless another commander is revamped to be +120% op.

If the commander is nerfed to be the 100% power level any an all commander close 100% power level will start being used.
6 Aug 2019, 15:11 PM
#51
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Aug 2019, 15:02 PMVipper

Let me explain this with an hypothetical example example:

Lets say special op is 120% OP commander. The commander will dominate the meta unless another commander is revamped to be +120% op.

If the commander is nerfed to be the 100% power level any an all commander close 100% power level will start being used.

You will need to nerf a whole lot of commanders pretty damn hard to make Soviet defensive tactics on the level of even the next worst commander...
6 Aug 2019, 15:24 PM
#52
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Aug 2019, 15:02 PMVipper

Let me explain this with an hypothetical example example:

Lets say special op is 120% OP commander. The commander will dominate the meta unless another commander is revamped to be +120% op.

If the commander is nerfed to be the 100% power level any an all commander close 100% power level will start being used.


tl;dr: nerf spotting scopes.
6 Aug 2019, 16:20 PM
#53
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

There will always be meta commanders, because always something is better in given game mode.

You'll nerf current meta commanders, new meta commanders that'll be 90% of the time picks will replace them.

That's how RTS games work, there is high end competitive meta and then there are casual and mid level builds.


There are at least double the number of viable commanders compared to before the revamps started for each faction outside of OKW using SpecOps.

Ostheer has Infantry, Jaeger infantry, Jaegar armor, new Reserve armor, Mechanized, Tiger Ace when a few year ago it was 100% lightning war or bust. Some work better in teamgames and others 1v1, but Ostheer has a fantastic array of commanders to complement their strats at this time.

TLDR; Revamps are amazing and helping the game alot



6 Aug 2019, 16:26 PM
#54
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2



There are at least double the number of viable commanders compared to before the revamps started for each faction outside of OKW using SpecOps.

Ostheer has Infantry, Jaeger infantry, Jaegar armor, new Reserve armor, Mechanized, Tiger Ace when a few year ago it was 100% lightning war or bust. Some work better in teamgames and others 1v1, but Ostheer has a fantastic array of commanders to complement their strats at this time.

TLDR; Revamps are amazing and helping the game alot



+1
6 Aug 2019, 18:54 PM
#55
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

Yea I agree with so many viable commanders makes the game much better. I do like the option of LMGs upgrade for Rifle Company and Ostwind for Luftwaffe OKW. Also, can we talk about Wehrmacht Luftwaffe commander? I know we swapped OKW and Wher units but can Wehrmacht Luftwaffe commander get Falls?
6 Aug 2019, 19:01 PM
#56
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2

I know we swapped OKW and Wher units but can Wehrmacht Luftwaffe commander get Falls?


Wehrmacht has even "own Falls" in the gamefiles with different ui. Lets cross our fingers that the unit find his way in a possible revamp.
6 Aug 2019, 19:43 PM
#57
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



There are at least double the number of viable commanders compared to before the revamps started for each faction outside of OKW using SpecOps.

Ostheer has Infantry, Jaeger infantry, Jaegar armor, new Reserve armor, Mechanized, Tiger Ace when a few year ago it was 100% lightning war or bust. Some work better in teamgames and others 1v1, but Ostheer has a fantastic array of commanders to complement their strats at this time.

TLDR; Revamps are amazing and helping the game alot




Oh but I never questioned increased viability of commanders post revamps, I welcome it most.

Meta, especially in top 1v1 level is called meta however for a reason and will never be broad.
7 Aug 2019, 10:41 AM
#58
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


You will need to nerf a whole lot of commanders pretty damn hard to make Soviet defensive tactics on the level of even the next worst commander...

That is correct but even you buff the defensive tactics commander to 100% power level it will still see little use because their will be other OP commanders.

Imo revamping is not the appropriate way to increase the meta commanders. There are commander that simply have very powerful ability combination, there abilities that are simply UP or OP and there are commander that actually need a revamp.

My point here is simple, since Relic has chosen to do revamps revamping OP commander at this stage is far more effective in increasing the meta commanders than revamping a UP commander.
7 Aug 2019, 10:45 AM
#59
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



tl;dr: nerf spotting scopes.

Spotting scope are available to 2 only commanders and they are problematic only in the Elephant commander who is badly designed anyway since it has access to reckon planes and stuka on top of that.

That commander simply need a redesign (no access to super heavies and powerful off maps). Then one can check if spotting scope need a nerf.
7 Aug 2019, 10:48 AM
#60
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Aug 2019, 15:02 PMVipper
Let me explain this with an hypothetical example example:

Lets say special op is 120% OP commander. The commander will dominate the meta unless another commander is revamped to be +120% op.

If the commander is nerfed to be the 100% power level any an all commander close 100% power level will start being used.


Even if you did somehow perfectly balance every commander against each other, you'd still have everyone copying the commanders the streamers like.
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