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For the Love Of God M1 Pack Howitzer

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1 Jul 2019, 16:08 PM
#1
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 149

For the love of god please fix the M1 pack howitzer "overperforming" is an understatement the unit as absolutely broken.

Its accuracy is way too high along with a ridiculous AOE and damage profile. 2 M1 paks will squad wipe everything with zero input from the player building it.
1 Jul 2019, 16:20 PM
#2
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 447

Can usf get a sniper if the pak howitzer gets nerfed?
1 Jul 2019, 16:21 PM
#3
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3234 | Subs: 1

What is that? 700mp? 700mp that can't retreat even? 700mo that isn't riflemen, that isn't MGs. That isn't caches. Exploit the turtle. There isn't a schwere beside them making it so you can't strike. It's funny how units designed to punish stagnant played hurt like hell when you don't try and stop them....
1 Jul 2019, 16:23 PM
#4
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1537

What is that? 700mp? 700mp that can't retreat even? 700mo that isn't riflemen, that isn't MGs. That isn't caches. Exploit the turtle. There isn't a schwere beside them making it so you can't strike. It's funny how units designed to punish stagnant played hurt like hell when you don't try and stop them....


680mp but yeah I agree completely

Not to mention it's locked behind 55 fuel of tech. Cant say the same for most indirect fire pieces
1 Jul 2019, 16:31 PM
#5
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 149

It destroys moving units incredibly well...

The problem is, the pack howie basically hard-counters all of Ost's units with nearly zero user input. The Ost mortar is good, but as with all IDF units, it's best against static infantry - which USF rarely uses. Every single USF infantry unit, short of M1919 upgraded rifles, can fire on the move with little to no problem. Compare this to Ost, which is based entirely around static units: The MG42 is a core unit (unlike the .50), the Gren LMG needs to be stationary to fire, the early/mid AT role is filled by the PAK (compared to stuart, zooks) due to Muni cost, etc.

To counter all of these units, all the USF player needs to do is sit a pack-howie within range, and let it auto-fire. There's zero player input for an incredible amount of power.

Imagine if OST had a unit that auto-marked nearby moving infantry with +33% RA, forcing allied infantry to remain static; it would be absurdly OP. This is basically how disruptive the Pack-Howie/US-MHT is to OST play, except there's also doing MP-drain and squad wiping.
1 Jul 2019, 16:36 PM
#6
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3234 | Subs: 1

I'm not saying the pak howi couldn't use changes but complaining that 680mp in not retreatable indirect fire that can't stand up to a fight in a faction that has below average defensive capabilities when Ost was just given a huge accessibility buff to mobile high impact infantry is just silly. Take the fight to them. Pgrens in a halftrack is one of the most amazing (and quick hitting) combos in the game I'd argue and you can have sweeper pios in there too so you don't hit any meager defense they deployed AND can recrew them for yourself. Think outside the box!
1 Jul 2019, 16:38 PM
#7
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1537


To counter all of these units, all the USF player needs to do is sit a pack-howie within range, and let it auto-fire. There's zero player input for an incredible amount of power.


So what are you doing for the first 10 minutes before a pak howy even arrives?

Yes it's stronger than a german mortar which can be built almost immediately.
1 Jul 2019, 16:52 PM
#8
avatar of Warspite

Posts: 45

Permanently Banned
I totally agree, Ostheer should not have any counters against or afk players

1 Jul 2019, 17:22 PM
#9
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1510

People really think Pak Howi is fine? Wow.

--> It´s way too strong compared to any other non-rocket indirect fire. It makes Leig and all mortars (including Soviet 120mm) look like stone catapults.

--> It´s way too hard to keep alive in lategame because of very weapon crew formations and high cost to recrew/reinforce.

So...Instead of the last nerf to reduce it to 5 men crew (to this day I don`t know what this change was about), reduce it´s ability to wipe units and make it more durable for late-game. Bring back the crew size to 6 and make them spread out more so they don´t get wiped so easily.
1 Jul 2019, 18:56 PM
#10
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1537


--> It´s way too strong compared to any other non-rocket indirect fire. It makes Leig and all mortars (including Soviet 120mm) look like stone catapults.


It comes significantly later than those mortars, and still later than the leig.

I don't think anyone here has said it's "fine". I think the OP is exaggerating quite a bit, especially since he leaves out what you just mentioned. It's super fragile, de-crewing with 2 men still alive is pretty stupid
1 Jul 2019, 18:58 PM
#11
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1077

I'm not sure how you'd nerf the accuracy against moving targets but that's the only thing wrong with the pak howi. It's damage is fine but the fact that it has heat seeking shells is most annoying. It didn't deserve a crew size nerf though. Maybe they can change it so the crew spread out more often so less chance to be wiped by walking stuka.
1 Jul 2019, 19:13 PM
#12
1 Jul 2019, 19:19 PM
#13
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1961 | Subs: 3

So...Instead of the last nerf to reduce it to 5 men crew (to this day I don`t know what this change was about)


To give Ostheer an easier time countering it with either mortars or a Panzerwerfer. Which was near impossible with the 6 men crew.
1 Jul 2019, 19:23 PM
#14
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1378

What is that? 700mp? 700mp that can't retreat even? 700mo that isn't riflemen, that isn't MGs. That isn't caches. Exploit the turtle. There isn't a schwere beside them making it so you can't strike. It's funny how units designed to punish stagnant played hurt like hell when you don't try and stop them....


This basically summarizes Pack Howy
1 Jul 2019, 19:59 PM
#15
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3216 | Subs: 1

pretty sure it comes at roughly the same time as the LeIG but the LeIG is garbage by comparison. Either nerf the pak howitzer because of
--> It´s way too strong compared to any other non-rocket indirect fire. It makes Leig and all mortars (including Soviet 120mm) look like stone catapults.

--> It´s way too hard to keep alive in lategame because of very weapon crew formations and high cost to recrew/reinforce.


what blvck said, and/or change the price accordingly. Every other indirect fire piece was changed to not 1 shot squads anymore because it was frustrating and incredibly unfair, the pak howitzer is the only indirect outside of rocket arty and heavy/self propelled arty to 1 shot.

dumping 700MP into indirect isn't a lot when it wins you games. People used to build 3-4 USF mortars when they were laser guided and you couldn't just #adapt or smoke-and-flank. Same concept here. Is it impossible to flank them? no. But try flanking and killing 2x pak howis on faymonville where the map is so thin you can practically shoot from base to base with the barrage.
1 Jul 2019, 20:09 PM
#16
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 447

pretty sure it comes at roughly the same time as the LeIG but the LeIG is garbage by comparison. Either nerf the pak howitzer because of

what blvck said, and/or change the price accordingly. Every other indirect fire piece was changed to not 1 shot squads anymore because it was frustrating and incredibly unfair, the pak howitzer is the only indirect outside of rocket arty and heavy/self propelled arty to 1 shot.

dumping 700MP into indirect isn't a lot when it wins you games. People used to build 3-4 USF mortars when they were laser guided and you couldn't just #adapt or smoke-and-flank. Same concept here. Is it impossible to flank them? no. But try flanking and killing 2x pak howis on faymonville where the map is so thin you can practically shoot from base to base with the barrage.


If you think about it there is a reason why the pak howitzer is better than lieg. if we need to nerf the pak howitzer, usf is going to need a sniper and para demos on rear echelons.
1 Jul 2019, 20:11 PM
#17
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 675 | Subs: 1

There is something I´d love to see for all indirect fire in the game and that would be slow shell speed.
Movement is meant to counter indirect fire, so it´s really infuriating how all the mortars and howies are consistently able to keep their fire lined up with sprinting squads :hansRAGE:

As for this thing specifically, the mortar treatment, i.e. weaker autoattack compensated by better barrage would be sweet
1 Jul 2019, 20:19 PM
#19
avatar of BiggusDickus

Posts: 12

In my opinion it does somewhat overperform, although to say that it requires no user input isn't fair. For it to be effective it needs to be in auto attack range, and as previously mentioned it can't retreat so you have to keep it safe... Easier to do on some maps than others.
1 Jul 2019, 20:28 PM
#20
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3234 | Subs: 1

pretty sure it comes at roughly the same time as the LeIG but the LeIG is garbage by comparison. Either nerf the pak howitzer because of

what blvck said, and/or change the price accordingly. Every other indirect fire piece was changed to not 1 shot squads anymore because it was frustrating and incredibly unfair, the pak howitzer is the only indirect outside of rocket arty and heavy/self propelled arty to 1 shot.

dumping 700MP into indirect isn't a lot when it wins you games. People used to build 3-4 USF mortars when they were laser guided and you couldn't just #adapt or smoke-and-flank. Same concept here. Is it impossible to flank them? no. But try flanking and killing 2x pak howis on faymonville where the map is so thin you can practically shoot from base to base with the barrage.

Difference imo is that the t0 m1 orbital strike mortar could start working asap. The bleed starting from the first engagement was what so strong. The 210mp wasn't it? Was less of a risk if it was going to force off or wipe mg42s and sturms before they can even fire enough shots to reload.
By the time there is 700mp to free up for the pak howi it should be exploitable.
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