I do think the new USF, OKW and Ostheer commanders are too strong. Soviet and UKF are just good as they are, both suffering in lategame (no heavy tanks or strong offmaps) to make up for strong early/midgame.
- fast Tiger: -> bind to CPs, until some general decisions are made plz
- Ranger: They got cheaper but are easier to kill, I do think thats okay. Triple Super Bazooka is the equivalent of double shrek (less penetration but more damage if all three penetrate). If you ask me: No more than one Shrek or two Super Bazookas on one unit ever. It shouldn't be that easy to vaporize tanks with AT infantry for either side.
- Panzerfusiliers: Only one shrek, Call-in at CP 1 (overall more potent than CP 0 Ass grens or Ass engineers because of AI and AT power)
New USF doctrine is too good
1 Jul 2019, 10:46 AM
#61
Posts: 919
1 Jul 2019, 12:56 PM
#62
Posts: 45
Permanently Banned
I do think the new USF, OKW and Ostheer commanders are too strong. Soviet and UKF are just good as they are, both suffering in lategame (no heavy tanks or strong offmaps) to make up for strong early/midgame.
- fast Tiger: -> bind to CPs, until some general decisions are made plz
- Ranger: They got cheaper but are easier to kill, I do think thats okay. Triple Super Bazooka is the equivalent of double shrek (less penetration but more damage if all three penetrate). If you ask me: No more than one Shrek or two Super Bazookas on one unit ever. It shouldn't be that easy to vaporize tanks with AT infantry for either side.
- Panzerfusiliers: Only one shrek, Call-in at CP 1 (overall more potent than CP 0 Ass grens or Ass engineers because of AI and AT power)
Not like UKF needs a doctrinal heavy when u have Churchill covered by Fireflies and flares for off maps if you yolo them.
1 Jul 2019, 14:25 PM
#63
Posts: 4474
I do think the new USF, OKW and Ostheer commanders are too strong. Soviet and UKF are just good as they are, both suffering in lategame (no heavy tanks or strong offmaps) to make up for strong early/midgame.pnazer fusilier cost 30 more mp than volks and have WORSE rifles, they only become marginally better in AI when they get the g 43s, the panzer sherck upgrade leave them with soviet engineer lvl of AI and worse than Rear echelon lvl of AI, it's fair, if it was op then rear echelon zook would be ultra op by being cheaper, non doc and can reach 5 man with vet (+ the raw utility they bring)
- fast Tiger: -> bind to CPs, until some general decisions are made plz
- Ranger: They got cheaper but are easier to kill, I do think thats okay. Triple Super Bazooka is the equivalent of double shrek (less penetration but more damage if all three penetrate). If you ask me: No more than one Shrek or two Super Bazookas on one unit ever. It shouldn't be that easy to vaporize tanks with AT infantry for either side.
- Panzerfusiliers: Only one shrek, Call-in at CP 1 (overall more potent than CP 0 Ass grens or Ass engineers because of AI and AT power)
if u guys really have problem cause it triggers the volks meta PTSD just make them come 6 man from the start but let them have AT rifle (3-4)and at mines while keeping snare for the upgrade
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
1 Jul 2019, 21:51 PM
#66
Posts: 919
pnazer fusilier cost 30 more mp than volks and have WORSE rifles, they only become marginally better in AI when they get the g 43s, the panzer sherck upgrade leave them with soviet engineer lvl of AI and worse than Rear echelon lvl of AI, it's fair, if it was op then rear echelon zook would be ultra op by being cheaper, non doc and can reach 5 man with vet (+ the raw utility they bring)
I understand your point about too weak AI power of Panzerfusiliers. But Echelons would be super op in comparison. Really? Please compare stats (penetration+damage) of Shrek and normal zook, then have a look a the frontal armour of most german tanks. Yeah, you have to get into the 180° degrees of a tank where it counts as back armour, otherwise normal zooks are pretty useless and a waste of AI power. Shreks on the other hand can yolo frontally in on most allied tanks you will typically see as long as there is no supression or you smoked the source of supression.
if u guys really have problem cause it triggers the volks meta PTSD just make them come 6 man from the start but let them have AT rifle (3-4)and at mines while keeping snare for the upgrade
That would be a solution if you ask me.
1 Jul 2019, 22:34 PM
#67
Posts: 4474
well what do u expect ? they cost more than echelon and are doctrinal, would at least expect to be better than engineer
I understand your point about too weak AI power of Panzerfusiliers. But Echelons would be super op in comparison. Really? Please compare stats (penetration+damage) of Shrek and normal zook, then have a look a the frontal armour of most german tanks. Yeah, you have to get into the 180° degrees of a tank where it counts as back armour, otherwise normal zooks are pretty useless and a waste of AI power. Shreks on the other hand can yolo frontally in on most allied tanks you will typically see as long as there is no supression or you smoked the source of supression.
That would be a solution if you ask me.
btw all at mobile weapons deal deflection damage, so they are not useless even if they don't pen
and try running shreck vs Sherman, u will find that they are dead after 1 volley (and same happens with the centaur)
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Jul 2019, 00:17 AM
#68
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Shrecks coming on much more expensive squads is also relevant to the echelon zook comparison. Zook echelon are amazing for price
Especially now with zook rangers. 3 elite zooks might have a high drop chance, but they are one of the strongest AT squads in the game right now. You pay for that difference, just as shreck squads do
Rangers might be taking this Commander over the top if anything. That said they're also on a cmdr with the Pershing, so...
Especially now with zook rangers. 3 elite zooks might have a high drop chance, but they are one of the strongest AT squads in the game right now. You pay for that difference, just as shreck squads do
Rangers might be taking this Commander over the top if anything. That said they're also on a cmdr with the Pershing, so...
2 Jul 2019, 06:48 AM
#69
Posts: 4474
Shrecks coming on much more expensive squads is also relevant to the echelon zook comparison. Zook echelon are amazing for pricethe problem is the sprint not the zook ranger themself
Especially now with zook rangers. 3 elite zooks might have a high drop chance, but they are one of the strongest AT squads in the game right now. You pay for that difference, just as shreck squads do
Rangers might be taking this Commander over the top if anything. That said they're also on a cmdr with the Pershing, so...
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Jul 2019, 09:02 AM
#70
Posts: 3600 | Subs: 1
Don't pfuss also have sprint with their shreck? don't Pzg have sprint with their shreck with a vehicle close by? Or Pzgren inside a 250 or RE inside a M3 or Wc51 etc...
If sprint is a problem is it for all infantry carrying AT weapons, not only a selection of it.
If sprint is a problem is it for all infantry carrying AT weapons, not only a selection of it.
2 Jul 2019, 16:49 PM
#71
Posts: 4474
Don't pfuss also have sprint with their shreck? don't Pzg have sprint with their shreck with a vehicle close by? Or Pzgren inside a 250 or RE inside a M3 or Wc51 etc...well yes ? that's why they nerfed it to vet 5 single movement use for like 5 second, the other sprint gives smoke + it works on all squads, and last longer and quite cheap
If sprint is a problem is it for all infantry carrying AT weapons, not only a selection of it.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Jul 2019, 18:10 PM
#72
Posts: 5279
well yes ? that's why they nerfed it to vet 5 single movement use for like 5 second, the other sprint gives smoke + it works on all squads, and last longer and quite cheap
Cheap? Isn't it like 70mu? Ontop of the muni for the triple Shrek squad I don't really know if it's an issue... Pgrens can sprint with the right commander and it only costs 10mu, that is cheap. Oorah is expensive for what it is at 20mu so I don't think the new ability can really qualify as cheap...
#stalinwept
2 Jul 2019, 18:17 PM
#73
Posts: 4474
20 second sprint on a 5 man 3 zook squad a bit different from 5 second sprint on a 4 man man 2 shreck squad
Cheap? Isn't it like 70mu? Ontop of the muni for the triple Shrek squad I don't really know if it's an issue... Pgrens can sprint with the right commander and it only costs 10mu, that is cheap. Oorah is expensive for what it is at 20mu so I don't think the new ability can really qualify as cheap...
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Jul 2019, 18:34 PM
#74
Posts: 3053
20 second sprint on a 5 man 3 zook squad a bit different from 5 second sprint on a 4 man man 2 shreck squad
If this ability is cheap what about valiant assault? It's like 70 muni, lasts for longer than 20 seconds, and makes your infantry terminators in addition to giving sprint. But sure, let's focus on the incredibly OP smoke shell and sprint ability.
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2 Jul 2019, 18:44 PM
#75
Posts: 4474
cause u can't have duble/triple sherck with valiant assault, if it did not come with rangers it would be balanced
If this ability is cheap what about valiant assault? It's like 70 muni, lasts for longer than 20 seconds, and makes your infantry terminators in addition to giving sprint. But sure, let's focus on the incredibly OP smoke shell and sprint ability.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Jul 2019, 18:46 PM
#76
Posts: 3600 | Subs: 1
cause u can't have duble/triple sherck with valiant assault, if it did not come with rangers it would be balanced
You can have a 250 with dual shreck inside and you can have infinite sprint with a vehicle close by.
2 Jul 2019, 18:51 PM
#77
Posts: 4474
again different things, zook/piat on vehicle are not op same for sherck, the increase in speed for the pgreen vet 1 is not sprint speed of the zook ranger, they are faster than tanks
You can have a 250 with dual shreck inside and you can have infinite sprint with a vehicle close by.
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Jul 2019, 19:55 PM
#78
Posts: 919
well what do u expect ? they cost more than echelon and are doctrinal, would at least expect to be better than engineer
What are you telling me here? I was the one that said that normal zooks are really bad in comparison. I never expected Rear Echelons beeing better than a doctrinal unit. You stated that REs would be super op in comparison, I just said that they never would be op because they have zooks instead of shreks. I just made clear that your argument was totally wrong.
btw all at mobile weapons deal deflection damage, so they are not useless even if they don't pen
Yeah, but its too low to yolo your infantry in if you can't penetrate just to get some deflection damage.
And try running shreck vs Sherman, u will find that they are dead after 1 volley (and same happens with the centaur)
a) There are other allied tanks than Sherman and Centaur, that do less infantry damage.
b) You don't have to kill the tank with your shreks alone, sometimes that one salvo is enough before you retreat. I do find it especially annoying when your tank gets charged by 1-3 Shrek squads and you want to move back but vehicle pathing AI ends in a really small obstacle where your tank suddenly begins to turn just to get destroyed by another salvo. This is so lame. Infantry At shouldn't be for attacking the enemy but for defending your frontline.
2 Jul 2019, 20:03 PM
#79
Posts: 4474
i mean as a comparison if a 280 mp doc unit is op cause it has 2 sherck and no AI then a 200 mp with much more utility and 2 zook would just be a down scalled more spammable version so it would be op as every 3 u would get another rear echelon, so no the pfusiler are fine, it's just the PTSD kicking in
a)obv, but they can still kill 1 shreck squad alone even then t 34 are really cheap
b)well if he brings 2-3 pgreen with shreck vs 1 of ur tank that's 640-900mp and 200-300 muni vs 300-340mp and 90-110 fu, i think at that point u are just outnumbered and out resourced
a)obv, but they can still kill 1 shreck squad alone even then t 34 are really cheap
b)well if he brings 2-3 pgreen with shreck vs 1 of ur tank that's 640-900mp and 200-300 muni vs 300-340mp and 90-110 fu, i think at that point u are just outnumbered and out resourced
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
2 Jul 2019, 20:05 PM
#80
Posts: 789
You can have a 250 with dual shreck inside and you can have infinite sprint with a vehicle close by.
I thought this would be op Untill I tried it. The half track gets 2 shot and then Pgrens inside can’t hit a thing because the get an accuracy penalty inside.
PGrens are fragile, and cost 34mp to reinforce. That’s why they aren’t OP
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
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