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Ostwind's penetrations

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22 Jun 2019, 17:38 PM
#121
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573


Didnt you complain before using unrealistic stats and less than ideal void universe combats and even when proved wrong in such scenario now you bring a realistic one that will disfavour your non consequent argument even more?

sander just made a closer to real situation and it went all against your point. But to you, an even more reaslistic scenario is worth to bring up because you think its going to be in your favour?

Dont you get that AFK players combat or very dumb ones are simply out of context now?

Really, are you some kind of troll of another galaxy?


"Real situation" proved my point entirely - despite RNG being completely in T-34 favor and hitting every single shot on the move it still lost even under best circumstances.
22 Jun 2019, 17:40 PM
#122
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Ok then what should they do to Ostwind.
nothing people are just crying cause it actually kills infantry now and is a treat to LV and LT, it's literally the same as centaur and comes at the same time for more speed and a bit more pen for -50 armor and inability to hit while moving (centaur is 100% accurate while moving vs tanks and LV)
22 Jun 2019, 17:40 PM
#123
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 17:38 PMKirrik
"Real situation" proved my point entirely - despite RNG being completely in T-34 favor and hitting every single shot on the move it still lost even under best circumstances.


Are you talking about the forest test where the T-34 spends half the time showing its rear armour towards the enemy?

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 17:34 PMKirrik
I was talking about singular unit there but 180 fuel worth of anti-infantry/anti-aircraft vehicles threatening medium while wiping infantry? I dont see Brummbar pulling that off anymore and cost of T4 and Brumm combined is higher than two Ostwinds.


The singular Ostwind gets beaten into the dirt by a T-34/76.

Double Ostwind vs stationary T-34/76 is a fair fight with pretty high variance.

Single Brummbar wins against a stationary T-34/76 pretty reliably.
22 Jun 2019, 17:41 PM
#124
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Please someone put a picture of 2 oswinds being destroyed and torned apart by some actual medium tank like a cromwell, an E8, a T34-85
22 Jun 2019, 17:43 PM
#125
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789

Let’s just ignore tech skipping please? It is, in my opinion, a stupid mechanic that should be removed, as it means that later units (brumbier, panther) need to be balanced with skipping in mind

Either Panthers and Brumbiers are good compared to allied late game tanks, and you “have to” rush brumm and panther because they are op when rushed, or Panther and Brumbier suck so you don’t tech skip and when you get to late game allied tanks crush you
22 Jun 2019, 17:43 PM
#126
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Please someone put a picture of 2 oswinds being destroyed and torned apart by some actual medium tank like a cromwell, an E8, a T34-85


How about T-34/76s?

22 Jun 2019, 17:43 PM
#127
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

kir at this point u are just a troll wasting our time, is the AEC op cause it beats ostwind while dealing good damage to inf ? does it comes before centaur ? is it more lethal than centaur ?

people already explained that x2 resource to beat 1 unit is bad trade and not considered a counter, for the same fucking logic as 2 tank beat a tank destroyer and 2 inf squad beat a MG
22 Jun 2019, 17:43 PM
#128
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 17:38 PMKirrik


"Real situation" proved my point entirely - despite RNG being completely in T-34 favor and hitting every single shot on the move it still lost even under best circumstances.

Your "real situation" is a biased single footage of a lucky RNG of 3 units being dead AFK and on top of that your conclusions about it are utterly biased towards nerfing Ostwind because you wanted so.

T34 is the worst unit to use since it is as medium tank as conscript as elite infantry.

Why didnt you put the T34 backwards too? To simply save us the time and take your point as the joke it is
22 Jun 2019, 17:45 PM
#129
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 17:40 PMLago


The singular Ostwind gets beaten into the dirt by a T-34/76.

Double Ostwind vs stationary T-34/76 is a fair fight with pretty high variance.

Single Brummbar wins against a stationary T-34/76 pretty reliably.


Man you're so focused at T-34 duels even though my entire point here was Ostwind being overbuffed to the point of threatening mediums, not that it's effective AT vehicle. Brummbar was nerfed because it was too good at everything including fighting mediums thankts to retarded armor values. Ostwind is in same state as pre-nerf Brummbar now its too cost effective at what it does for it's cost.
22 Jun 2019, 17:45 PM
#130
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789

I’m leaving the balance team isn’t stupid and will ignore this circle jerk of a thread
22 Jun 2019, 17:46 PM
#131
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 17:45 PMKirrik


Man you're so focused at T-34 duels even though my entire point here was Ostwind being overbuffed to the point of threatening mediums, not that it's effective AT vehicle. Brummbar was nerfed because it was too good at everything including fighting mediums thankts to retarded armor values. Ostwind is in same state as pre-nerf Brummbar now its too cost effective at what it does for it's cost.
it's literally the same as centaur, both unit deal some damage to tanks
22 Jun 2019, 17:49 PM
#132
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

I’m leaving the balance team isn’t stupid and will ignore this circle jerk of a thread
yea fanboy crying ostwind is op even after 10 example of video and img proof will be ignored as they should especially if they never played other factions and know nothing about stats
22 Jun 2019, 17:53 PM
#133
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 17:45 PMKirrik
Man you're so focused at T-34 duels even though my entire point here was Ostwind being overbuffed to the point of threatening mediums, not that it's effective AT vehicle. Brummbar was nerfed because it was too good at everything including fighting mediums thankts to retarded armor values. Ostwind is in same state as pre-nerf Brummbar now its too cost effective at what it does for it's cost.


It doesn't threaten mediums.

If you throw a force of Ostwinds twice the size at a force of T-34/76s, it's an even fight.

I repeated this test with Cromwells instead of T-34/76s, and it was 14 Cromwell wins vs 2 Ostwind wins.
22 Jun 2019, 18:12 PM
#134
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

I want to admit that 2 ostwinds are now a force to reckon with, but by no means im going to send a single T34 or infantry (its natural prey) to fight them off...

Now i wonder if a hulled down ostwind is worth anything... :p
22 Jun 2019, 18:13 PM
#135
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Ok then what should they do to Ostwind.


If the Ostwind actually does prove a bit too powerful in the next couple of weeks (when the initial rage/exitement wears off and our opinions will be less subjective), I suppose we can have a look at making its reload longer from 5s to 6-7s.

That way it will keep its "alpha" damage (1 clip of 7 shots) to reliably force off infantry and light vehicles but its sustained DPS will drop, giving infantry and lights more time (while it reloads) to retreat before it wipes/kills them. The same way the Brummbar is balanced (high alpha / long reload).

Or just increase its cost to ~300-320MP and 100FU.
Increasing the manpower cost is probably a good idea anyway because 270MP is dirt cheap for a medium vehicle.
22 Jun 2019, 18:14 PM
#136
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

cost increase of a worth using ostwind sounds fair
22 Jun 2019, 19:15 PM
#137
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 17:38 PMKirrik


"Real situation" proved my point entirely -


No it didnt, when are you going to understand that wasnt a real situation? Until you or someone else posts a replay/clip FROM AN ACTUAL GAME we havent seen a real situation.

All that video showed that a t34 being micro'd brainlessly can lose two 2 ostwinds, assuming there are ZERO other units on the field. That's a real situation in your eyes? Of course, Sander already told you this, so who knows whether or not you'll listen this time
22 Jun 2019, 20:13 PM
#138
avatar of Loxley

Posts: 223

Kirrik is just mad, that he can't "yolo" with his inf blob into an ostwind anymore.
As Wehr player, when I faced an centaur with my infantry, it was always the "end of they story", needed some other unit to support the attack, like Stug or AT-gun to push it back.
Ostwind was always easily pushed back by inf with 1 bazooka, because it killed only very few models when kiting or missed completely on the move, while Centaur killed chasing units in 2 bursts.
Now, where Ostwind has finally the same abilities, this guy seems to have problems to adapt.
22 Jun 2019, 21:38 PM
#139
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



If the Ostwind actually does prove a bit too powerful in the next couple of weeks (when the initial rage/exitement wears off and our opinions will be less subjective), I suppose we can have a look at making its reload longer from 5s to 6-7s.

That way it will keep its "alpha" damage (1 clip of 7 shots) to reliably force off infantry and light vehicles but its sustained DPS will drop, giving infantry and lights more time (while it reloads) to retreat before it wipes/kills them. The same way the Brummbar is balanced (high alpha / long reload).

Or just increase its cost to ~300-320MP and 100FU.
Increasing the manpower cost is probably a good idea anyway because 270MP is dirt cheap for a medium vehicle.


Might need to add manual reload then if you extend the reload. We have all experienced the Ole "ACH AN ENEMY! FIRE A WARNING SHOT AND RELOAD" might be a good way to wiggle that into scope....
22 Jun 2019, 22:07 PM
#140
avatar of tightrope
Senior Caster Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29

If you are going to post something like this you have a responsibility to show an average result or multiple tests.
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