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Ostwind's penetrations

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22 Jun 2019, 16:59 PM
#101
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 16:50 PMKirrik
I pointed out it's ridiculous for it's timing and cost and outright game ending if you and your teammates dont prepare Ostwind rush right now. And thats a tier 3 same fuel cost as single T-34.


Timing:
Ostwind 40 + 90 + 15 - 20 = 125FU when rushed
Cost: 90FU

Centaur 30 + 115 - 20 = 125FU when rushed
Cost: 100FU


Performance: roughly equal TTK as the Centaur in several scenarios (disregarding representability of number of tests because I can't be bothered to do more for you)


If you think the Ostwind's AI is 'ridiculous', the Centaur has been ridiculous for years now.
22 Jun 2019, 17:02 PM
#102
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573



Timing:
Ostwind 40 + 90 + 15 - 20 = 125FU when rushed
Cost: 90FU

Centaur 30 + 115 - 20 = 125FU when rushed
Cost: 100FU


Performance: roughly equal TTK as the Centaur in several scenarios (disregarding representability of number of tests because I can't be bothered to do more)


If you think the Ostwind's AI is 'ridiculous', the Centaur has been ridiculous for years now.


Yeah and you'll have to forego bolster and brens, leaving you with 4-man bren-less tommies and engineers without PIATS. Thats a lot of sacrifices for rushing Centaur, that cant be said about rushing tier 3 with ost.
22 Jun 2019, 17:03 PM
#103
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 17:02 PMKirrik


Yeah and you'll have to forego bolster and brens, leaving you with 4-man bren-less tommies. Thats a lot of sacrifices for rushing Centaur, that cant be said about rushing tier 3 with ost.
yea no green only mgs and pz green ....... are u for real man ? rushing centaur for brits: get mg get IS get RE get sniper get mortart pit get UC get at gun
rushing ostwind with osther: get mg get pioneer get panzer green ...... that's it
22 Jun 2019, 17:05 PM
#104
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573

yea no green only mgs and pz green ....... are u for real man ?

Grens have faust and LMG's while Pgrens have Schrecks. You are completely exposing yourself as brit without bolster or weapons, you dont lose anything if you go T1+schrecks into T3 as Ost
22 Jun 2019, 17:08 PM
#105
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 17:05 PMKirrik

Grens have faust and LMG's while Pgrens have Schrecks. You are completely exposing yourself as brit without bolster or weapons, you dont lose anything if you go T1+schrecks into T3 as Ost
.......... are u for real, u know building tier 1 cost fuel ? that's need to be added to the calculations, what he posted is literally tier 0 to tier 3 so 125 fu same as brits but brit's actually get new units

the more u talk the more u show the lack of knowledge about strategy and the game in general
22 Jun 2019, 17:09 PM
#106
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573

.......... are u for real, u know building tier 1 cost fuel ? that's need to be added to the calculations, what he poster is literally tier 0 to tier 3 so 125 fu same as brits

Woah, if you add T1 suddenly costs are so high it's much higher than Brits with bolster and weapons racks?
/sarcasm
22 Jun 2019, 17:09 PM
#107
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 16:56 PMKirrik
It's only the matter of time before people start abusing/spamming Ostwind same way they did JLI, then we'll see whether or not I was right about it


I would love to see how ppl will manage to spam a 90 fuel t3 vehicle like they spammed a 250mp cp 1 infiltration squad...
22 Jun 2019, 17:10 PM
#108
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 17:09 PMKirrik

Woah, if you add T1 suddenly costs are so high it's much higher than Brits with bolster and weapons racks?
/sarcasm
no u can get rack, why is bolster obligatory now ?if u want bolster than u have to allow ost to build tier 2 but at this point it's not a rush anymore
btw it's u who said rush ostwind
22 Jun 2019, 17:15 PM
#109
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 16:34 PMKirrik
They attack fast enough that even if T-34 pens them every shot (which is not even guaranteed) Ostwinds are the ones who usually win, one of them standing alive


So I ran this test 16 times.

8 Double Ostwind wins, 8 T-34/76 wins.

There was one test where both Ostwinds survived, and that was because I'd placed them badly and one ate a scatter shot meant for the other.

I think a midrange slugging match between two Ostwinds and a T-34/76 is a fair fight.

Considering Lanchester's law, that makes the T-34/76 four times stronger in an Ostwind vs T-34/76 1v1.
22 Jun 2019, 17:16 PM
#110
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573

no u can get rack, why is bolster obligatory now ?
btw it's u who said rush ostwind

I'm not the one who suggested you should skip T1 while doing so
In any case It's quite clear people are defending it same way JLI and Overwatch were being defended even though it's obviously overbuffed. I made my case here - it's too easy to rush and it's wayyyy too powerful for it's cost and timing
22 Jun 2019, 17:23 PM
#111
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 17:16 PMKirrik

I'm not the one who suggested you should skip T1 while doing so
In any case It's quite clear people are defending it same JLI and Overwatch are being defended even though it's obviously overbuffed. I made my case here - it's too easy to rush and it's wayyyy to powerful for it's cost and timing
ur are just biased as always, it comes at the same time as centaur ur argument was that brits rushing centaur was weaker than ost rush cause u are so ignorant an biased u didn't even count tier 1 and 2 for the cost and was saying that ost RUSHING and SKIPPING tier 1 and 2 leaving them only with mgs pioneer and Pgren was stronger than brits rushing even tho they get x 2 the units
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 17:16 PMKirrik
Yeah and you'll have to forego bolster and brens, leaving you with 4-man bren-less tommies and engineers without PIATS. Thats a lot of sacrifices for rushing Centaur, that cant be said about rushing tier 3 with ost.

if u lost to ostwind and came here crying go play ost and show us how op they are

did u even play ost once in ur life to not know tier 1 and 2 cost fuel ?
22 Jun 2019, 17:27 PM
#112
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 17:16 PMKirrik

I'm not the one who suggested you should skip T1 while doing so
In any case It's quite clear people are defending it same way JLI and Overwatch were being defended even though it's obviously overbuffed. I made my case here - it's too easy to rush and it's wayyyy too powerful for it's cost and timing

Iirc (it appears my memory might be wrong on these things) the Ostwind onlu has like 140 front armour so infantry AT would actually work fairly well against the Ostwind. Sure it mulches infantry now but with it only being able to damage 2 models a shot it won't get out unscathed.
It's just shaken the meta is all. Thrre is no reason the allies player can have appropriate counters in place for when the Ostwind hits. It's an overgrown luchs really and the same counters will work.
22 Jun 2019, 17:28 PM
#113
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


Iirc (it appears my memory might be wrong on these things) the Ostwind onlu has like 140 front armour so infantry AT would actually work fairly well against the Ostwind. Sure it mulches infantry now but with it only being able to damage 2 models a shot it won't get out unscathed.
It's just shaken the meta is all. Thrre is no reason the allies player can have appropriate counters in place for when the Ostwind hits. It's an overgrown luchs really and the same counters will work.
140 armor ? ostwind only dreams of such protection
ostwind_squad_mp
ostwind_flak_panzer_mp Target size: 22 Sight: 35 Speed: 6.3 Accel: 2.1 Rotate: 32 armor: 110/55 Health: 640

u can pen the rear of ostwind with mgs
22 Jun 2019, 17:31 PM
#114
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573

ur are just biased as always, it comes at the same time as centaur ur argument was that brits rushing centaur was weaker than ost rush cause u are so ignorant an biased u didn't even count tier 1 and 2 for the cost and was saying that ost RUSHING and SKIPPING tier 1 and 2 leaving them only with mgs pioneer and Pgren was stronger than brits rushing even tho they get x 2 the units

if u lost to ostwind and came here crying go play ost and show us how op they are

did u even play ost once in ur life to not know tier 1 and 2 cost fuel ?


Grenadiers dont need any fuel costing upgrades to work as mainline. Pgrens with schrek could easily cover lack of AT gun before you get to T3, you're not leaving yourself vulnerable to LV rushes while going to Ostwind. You absolutely do if you try to do this as brit. Very kind of you miss my point entirely and let me repeat again - I never suggested skipping T1
22 Jun 2019, 17:31 PM
#115
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 12:55 PMKirrik

Because Soviets are faction that fights against Axis? Try using your brain for a second, Ostwind and T-34 have similar timings and one of them is thermonuclear wipe machine that can destroy infantry/planes/LV's and even tanks when massed while other struggles against pretty much everything it encounters even though it's tier higher.


180 fuel of units wins against 90 fuel of units! WOW!
22 Jun 2019, 17:34 PM
#116
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Another 16 tests.

7 Ostwind wins, 9 T-34/76 wins.

Three double Ostwind survivals and one double Ostwind abandon.
22 Jun 2019, 17:34 PM
#117
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573



180 fuel of units wins against 90 fuel of units! WOW!

I was talking about singular unit there but 180 fuel worth of anti-infantry/anti-aircraft vehicles threatening medium while wiping infantry? I dont see Brummbar pulling that off anymore and cost of T4 and Brumm combined is higher than two Ostwinds.
22 Jun 2019, 17:35 PM
#118
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789

Ok then what should they do to Ostwind.
22 Jun 2019, 17:36 PM
#119
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 16:27 PMKirrik


Now try that test on an actual map with buildings and forest, that T-34 would start spinning in circles after first couple of seconds allowing Ostwinds to bumrush it , assuming they wont just flank it in first place

Didnt you complain before using unrealistic stats and less than ideal void universe combats and even when proved wrong in such scenario now you bring a realistic one that will disfavour your non consequent argument even more?

sander just made a closer to real situation and it went all against your point. But to you, an even more reaslistic scenario is worth to bring up because you think its going to be in your favour?

Dont you get that AFK players combat or very dumb ones are simply out of context now?

Really, are you some kind of troll of another galaxy?
22 Jun 2019, 17:36 PM
#120
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 17:31 PMKirrik


Grenadiers dont need any fuel costing upgrades to work as mainline. Pgrens with schrek could easily cover lack of AT gun before you get to T3, you're not leaving yourself vulnerable to LV rushes while going to Ostwind. You absolutely do if you try to do this as brit. Very kind of you miss my point entirely and let me repeat again - I never suggested skipping T1
let's get clear, osther skipping tier only 2 like u say = 140 fu to rush ostwind brits rushing centaur = 125 fu and they already get comparable things (and x 2 if osther skipes tier 1) but gues how much does weapon upgrade cost ? 15 fuel and look it's 140 same as osther, while still having at gun so now IS can double equip and still beat ost easly, but let me guess this is not enough ? bolster is a must to beat green even tho at base IS deals 50% more dps than green right ?
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