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russian armor

USF “problems” (mine at least)

23 Jun 2019, 12:23 PM
#21
avatar of Sp33dSnake

Posts: 25

Honestly, .50 Cal should be a call in like DShk.

MG teams should've been based on the .30 M1919. Fewer units (3), performs somewhere in between a Vickers and an MG34. Longer times between reloads. Performs better as a faster, mobile MG rather than the typical emplaced MG.

I think the .50 is the worst MG team in the game, or at least tied with the Maxim.
23 Jun 2019, 15:32 PM
#22
avatar of Escapist

Posts: 7

Honestly, .50 Cal should be a call in like DShk.

MG teams should've been based on the .30 M1919. Fewer units (3), performs somewhere in between a Vickers and an MG34. Longer times between reloads. Performs better as a faster, mobile MG rather than the typical emplaced MG.

I think the .50 is the worst MG team in the game, or at least tied with the Maxim.


+1 for the M1919, it's bizarre to have a .50 cal as your standard mg. But if you rate mgs by their suppression then the Maxim is far worse than the .50 cal.
23 Jun 2019, 15:53 PM
#23
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 484 | Subs: 1

Well there’s no way to make an M1919A4 in the game, as fast as I know, but modders/balance team, please correct me if I’m wrong.

I like the idea of USF airdropped weapons being different than the tech version of them (air dropped M1919A4 vs stock M2HB or vice versa and stock M1 57 mm ATG vs an air dropped M42 light ATG that is a stand in for the US M3 37mm ATG actually used by Paratroopers.

Actually, give Paratroopers the .50 cal drop and light AT gun drop, and put the .30 cal M1919A4 in as the stock USF MG. This way the USF stock MG is basically an MG34 clone and you can buff the .50 cal’s penetration and damage vs light vehicles because it is now locked to a doctrine.

23 Jun 2019, 23:25 PM
#24
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 335

You guys want a little bit too much. I understand that Cpt. are boring, better overwork them to get some other abilities etc.


Don't see a second stock combat infantry unit as a way to make USF op. Other factions have multiple infantry units without beeing op too. This would be a chance to end this Rifleman centrism. If I stick to my Assault Engineers example, you could define their rolls and make them different and dependent on each other. The Rifleman AT-grenade could move to the Ass engis for example. Or maybe Rifleman could only upgrade bars while Ass Engis could only upgrade bazookas and so on. There are endless possibilities for a more diverse approach. If you play vs soviets for example you can't be sure if he goes heavy con strat or builds T1 or T2 fast to bring out maxims or penals. Playing vs USF there will be... let me guess... erhhmm... yes, there will be Rifleman... and... yes... more Rifleman... yawn.
24 Jun 2019, 00:14 AM
#25
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 484 | Subs: 1



Don't see a second stock combat infantry unit as a way to make USF op. Other factions have multiple infantry units without beeing op too. This would be a chance to end this Rifleman centrism. If I stick to my Assault Engineers example, you could define their rolls and make them different and dependent on each other. The Rifleman AT-grenade could move to the Ass engis for example. Or maybe Rifleman could only upgrade bars while Ass Engis could only upgrade bazookas and so on. There are endless possibilities for a more diverse approach. If you play vs soviets for example you can't be sure if he goes heavy con strat or builds T1 or T2 fast to bring out maxims or penals. Playing vs USF there will be... let me guess... erhhmm... yes, there will be Rifleman... and... yes... more Rifleman... yawn.


That’s kinda the point and theme of USF. Special units are Doctrinal only because the US Army was made up of “Citizen Soldiers” who were all very much trained the same way to be versatile and effective fighting generalists. The specialization that complicated the German military was not present except in very specific units such as Ranger Battalions and Airborne Divisions, which are represented in game by being doctrinal units.

Adding in special non doctrinal infantry units to USF defeats its theme of regular Joes going out to do battle with the Axis forces that have been specializing for years. These same GIs just need to be equipped for the fight and they are the equal of any SS or Wehrmacht soldier who had been enslaving Europe for years under the mantle of National Socialism.

Riflemen are symbolic of the American in WWII, the average GI Joe who would leave his home, clad in olive green uniform and shouldering his M1 Rifle, to liberate the oppressed people of Europe as just one of many citizen soldiers.
24 Jun 2019, 01:25 AM
#26
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 428

Yeah... I dont much like the idea of replacing Riflemen like Axis now switches between their infantry. I do however think, if it were me designing the faction and not Relic, I'd have upped their rifle damage to be at least equal to the m1 carbine, and lower the ammo count to 8(7) to compensate. This would give them better burst damage and make them less dependant on BARing up while keeping average dps about the same. Then Id get rid of those stupid weapon racks and have all upgrades be in-unit, still unlocked by tech. Its not like anyone puts BARs on ass engies or Rangers or whatnot anyway. Standardize bazooka damage around the current 'elite' model to make them viable as a drawback for not being able to dump them on REs. I'd also equalize all of the hidden maluses riflemen get that nobody talks about, like an extremely slow turn speed and worse cone of fire.

And yeah, Id buff the M2HB (or at least its AP ammo! Come on, the MG42 is far better versus vehicles thanks to its massive ROF advantage) so the LT tier isnt completely hopeless against armor and vehicles. Again Id also remove the hidden maluses the M2HB gets like longer aim time and aim time after firing.

The LT unit itself could also use a utility ability of some sort, like CPT has now, since it is otherwise a RM unit with worse RA and a lower ROF tommy gun. And the same 150 rotation crap.

But the AT gun is fine as is, so is most of the unit roster besides the LT tier, RM, and not having any halfway useful mines whatsoever outside of doctrine and the M20 M6 mine that literally nobody uses, since the M20 is more situational than any other LV I can think of. (The m20 also really needs the pathetic AP vet looked at, since right now it is an absolutely negligible modifer that grants a huge total of 1.5 penetration at point blank range and .5 at max range, for totals of 4.5 and 1.5 respectively. I would say double or even triple the modifier, at the very least, so penetration approaches the stock m2hb's and it becomes capable of damaging a 222 more than once out of every five or so shots.)
24 Jun 2019, 02:01 AM
#27
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1279 | Subs: 2



That’s kinda the point and theme of USF. Special units are Doctrinal only because the US Army was made up of “Citizen Soldiers” who were all very much trained the same way to be versatile and effective fighting generalists. The specialization that complicated the German military was not present except in very specific units such as Ranger Battalions and Airborne Divisions, which are represented in game by being doctrinal units.

Adding in special non doctrinal infantry units to USF defeats its theme of regular Joes going out to do battle with the Axis forces that have been specializing for years. These same GIs just need to be equipped for the fight and they are the equal of any SS or Wehrmacht soldier who had been enslaving Europe for years under the mantle of National Socialism.

Riflemen are symbolic of the American in WWII, the average GI Joe who would leave his home, clad in olive green uniform and shouldering his M1 Rifle, to liberate the oppressed people of Europe as just one of many citizen soldiers.


Beautiful Post.
24 Jun 2019, 05:36 AM
#28
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 143

Yeah... I dont much like the idea of replacing Riflemen like Axis now switches between their infantry. I do however think, if it were me designing the faction and not Relic, I'd have upped their rifle damage to be at least equal to the m1 carbine, and lower the ammo count to 8(7) to compensate. This would give them better burst damage and make them less dependant on BARing up while keeping average dps about the same. Then Id get rid of those stupid weapon racks and have all upgrades be in-unit, still unlocked by tech. Its not like anyone puts BARs on ass engies or Rangers or whatnot anyway. Standardize bazooka damage around the current 'elite' model to make them viable as a drawback for not being able to dump them on REs. I'd also equalize all of the hidden maluses riflemen get that nobody talks about, like an extremely slow turn speed and worse cone of fire.

And yeah, Id buff the M2HB (or at least its AP ammo! Come on, the MG42 is far better versus vehicles thanks to its massive ROF advantage) so the LT tier isnt completely hopeless against armor and vehicles. Again Id also remove the hidden maluses the M2HB gets like longer aim time and aim time after firing.

The LT unit itself could also use a utility ability of some sort, like CPT has now, since it is otherwise a RM unit with worse RA and a lower ROF tommy gun. And the same 150 rotation crap.

But the AT gun is fine as is, so is most of the unit roster besides the LT tier, RM, and not having any halfway useful mines whatsoever outside of doctrine and the M20 M6 mine that literally nobody uses, since the M20 is more situational than any other LV I can think of. (The m20 also really needs the pathetic AP vet looked at, since right now it is an absolutely negligible modifer that grants a huge total of 1.5 penetration at point blank range and .5 at max range, for totals of 4.5 and 1.5 respectively. I would say double or even triple the modifier, at the very least, so penetration approaches the stock m2hb's and it becomes capable of damaging a 222 more than once out of every five or so shots.)


+1 great analysis and write up.
24 Jun 2019, 06:45 AM
#29
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 335



That’s kinda the point and theme of USF. Special units are Doctrinal only because the US Army was made up of “Citizen Soldiers” who were all very much trained the same way to be versatile and effective fighting generalists. The specialization that complicated the German military was not present except in very specific units such as Ranger Battalions and Airborne Divisions, which are represented in game by being doctrinal units.

Adding in special non doctrinal infantry units to USF defeats its theme of regular Joes going out to do battle with the Axis forces that have been specializing for years. These same GIs just need to be equipped for the fight and they are the equal of any SS or Wehrmacht soldier who had been enslaving Europe for years under the mantle of National Socialism.

Riflemen are symbolic of the American in WWII, the average GI Joe who would leave his home, clad in olive green uniform and shouldering his M1 Rifle, to liberate the oppressed people of Europe as just one of many citizen soldiers.


Contentwise this may be right. But thats a little too much american pathos for me.
24 Jun 2019, 07:25 AM
#30
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 333

Riflemen worthy For 280 mp Cost ?
And BAR worthy for 60 mu for now ?
24 Jun 2019, 15:57 PM
#32
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2606 | Subs: 1

Now that Ostheer has been buffed to OKW/Sov level, balance team may have a look to USF core units.
24 Jun 2019, 21:17 PM
#39
avatar of FichtenMoped
Editor in Chief Badge
Patrion 310

Posts: 4606 | Subs: 3

Invised a bunch of Offtopic posts. Please get back to the problems the ingame USF has ;)
24 Jun 2019, 21:34 PM
#40
avatar of Enkidu

Posts: 351

I don’t really agree that the USF is lacking in core diversity. They are one of my favorite factions specifically because of their versatility. They are now, imo, now one of the best designed factions in terms of choices in mid game. If you factor in doctrines, I’d say early game has a lot of options too. Late game flexibility depends a lot on what mode you’re playing. In 1v1, the options are still wide open but in team games, they seem to get locked into spamming Jacksons and scotts to deal with heavies and team weapons.
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