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russian armor

Falls should need munition to upgrade fg42

17 Apr 2019, 13:54 PM
#41
avatar of Musti

Posts: 203


Falls are made of glass but hit like a truck.


Not that I think Falls should be nerfed or anything (I think they are fine now), but where did the whole "glass" thing came from? 4-man with 0.83 RA is hardly "glass", even if they don't win any durability contests they are not THAT far behind PGrens and whatnot.

I mean "cannon" is obvious, squad with 4 BARS is nothing to sniff at.
17 Apr 2019, 14:15 PM
#42
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


They do not infiltrate so there is no requirement for the upgrade. You might as well just make them drop in slower for all that great" change would do. I see literally no purpose in it, especially if it's free. Should commandos have to upgrade? I'd say that an extra man and the ability to reinforce if done well is equal to long range dps no?


Id say commandos should too yeah. I don't really like the idea of high dps squads just spawning ready to go behind the lines. Even if it's not infiltration

I understand what Paras advantages are. I'm simply asking that we remove the ability for anyone to drop things behind the lines for easy wipes
17 Apr 2019, 14:16 PM
#43
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



Id say commandos should too yeah. I don't really like the idea of high dps squads just spawning ready to go behind the lines. Even if it's not infiltration

I understand what Paras advantages are. I'm simply asking that we remove the ability for anyone to drop things behind the lines for easy wipes

In case you missed it, infiltration commandos spawn with less models and glider commandos, before they land you can be on the other side of the map.
17 Apr 2019, 14:17 PM
#44
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2019, 13:54 PMMusti


Not that I think Falls should be nerfed or anything (I think they are fine now), but where did the whole "glass" thing came from? 4-man with 0.83 RA is hardly "glass", even if they don't win any durability contests they are not THAT far behind PGrens and whatnot.

I mean "cannon" is obvious, squad with 4 BARS is nothing to sniff at.

For their cost they are extremely squishy. 0. 83 is barely more durable than Sturm pios but the biggest factor comes from their unstacked dps which means as they take losses their output decreases proportionality unlike grens or lmg Obers. This is a good thing, losses should hurt but it means that they can't sit around and make use of cover if banged up because their DPS will suffer meaning they won't be winning any fights.
17 Apr 2019, 14:27 PM
#45
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2019, 14:16 PMKatitof

In case you missed it, infiltration commandos spawn with less models and glider commandos, before they land you can be on the other side of the map.


In case you missed it, I was only talking about glider commandos. It takes them a while to land sure you don't always know where the glider is going. If anything it's easier to see where falls and airborne are dropped because the plane just flies in a straight line

I'm asking for a free upgrade guys. Calm down on the lectures
17 Apr 2019, 14:28 PM
#46
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

Because falls are meant to close the gaps between your mainline inf strenght and the enemy least favourable fighting distance.

Falls are expensive AF and fragile unless vetted. They are an expensive tool not meant to crude infantry combat but flanking and ambushing weaker targets.

If their weapons werent as good, ambushing would take ages and the other player would easly retreat.

Simpler minds would send them like lambs to the slaugther and find them frustated in both ways, why they cant win face to face combat and why they have overperforming guns


I kind of agree with this. Falls with weapon upgrade will make them completely unattractive unit as they are now. Falls are super expensive and their models always clamp together (can we fix this already?). If we were to implement FG-42 upgrade then their man power cost needs to decrease and fix the unit formation.
17 Apr 2019, 14:35 PM
#47
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

Falls are indeed a four man squad with four really good guns

No other long range squad in the game can currently drop quickly and arrive at full strength.

Stormstoopers arrive with rifles and upgrade free. I think that would be the best way to avoid them being dropped into cheesy situations at full strength.

It even fits. Paratroopers didn't land with huge guns. They landed wih pistols and grenades and their heavy gear was dropped in capsules to be recovered. Obviously we don't need to go that far, but MP40s into FG42s would fit.
17 Apr 2019, 15:11 PM
#48
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

What purpose would it serve though? All it the impact it would have would be negligible. The only thing it would do is pointlessly add another no Brainer click. Look at the other units that have the free upgrade: storms which can spawn out of buildings instantly and the new Soviet airborne who spawn in a cloud of smoke both allow them to be delivered right where they could deal massive damage with very little risk if they had high DPS weapons. Falls drop in and it's very obvious. Isn't there better things they could work on than stripping power away JUST to add it to a free upgrade that serves no practical purpose?
17 Apr 2019, 15:17 PM
#49
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

It serves the purpose of removing the alpha strike potential of Falls to arrive and wipe.

The same purpose that the Stormtopper and Infiltration Commando arrival nerfs had.

Paratrooprs never had it because their weapon upgrades are slow and purchased. They also take longer to land than Falls.

Commandos don't have it because their glider is much less easily placed and takes a huge amount of time to arrive by comparison.
17 Apr 2019, 15:20 PM
#50
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

It even fits. Paratroopers didn't land with huge guns. They landed wih pistols and grenades and their heavy gear was dropped in capsules to be recovered. Obviously we don't need to go that far, but MP40s into FG42s would fit.


The FG42 was specifically designed to be carried and dropped with the paratrooper because Falls were under armed on drops and heavier weapons in crates deemed to be unfeasible.
17 Apr 2019, 15:32 PM
#51
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1



The FG42 was specifically designed to be carried and dropped with the paratrooper because Falls were under armed on drops and heavier weapons in crates deemed to be unfeasible.


I was under the impression they remained in canisters, but it's not my area of expertise and I will cede to others pretty gladly. Didn't look it up


All balance opinions remain

(Including the one where I don't believe it's high priority even if it does change)
17 Apr 2019, 15:54 PM
#52
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

Isn't there better things they could work on than stripping power away JUST to add it to a free upgrade that serves no practical purpose?


I just told you the practical purpose, not being ready to wipe things so easily. Falls drop zone is WAY more precise than airborne so it's a lot easier to drop them in behind the lines.

And the squad size isn't the reason for that difference, because the Soviet airborne drop is more precise too. Unless it's been changed since i last tested it
17 Apr 2019, 15:57 PM
#53
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



I just told you the practical purpose, not being ready to wipe things so easily. Falls drop zone is WAY more precise than airborne so it's a lot easier to drop them in behind the lines.

And the squad size isn't the reason for that difference, because the Soviet airborne drop is more precise too. Unless it's been changed since i last tested it

USF paras can drop with pin point accuracy on beacons, falls drop seems to be effected by LOS.
Its large when the drop is FOW and small when one has LOS in area.
17 Apr 2019, 16:00 PM
#54
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2019, 15:57 PMVipper

USF paras can drop with pin point accuracy on beacons, falls drop seems to be effected by LOS.


Both are effected by LoS, the Paras is a lot more. And I'm well aware of beacon drop that's my exact point. It requires another squad to have already been there just to set up that precision, for a squad that still needs to upgrade and it isn't even free.

Edit: might be wrong about the drop zone. They look the same in cheat commands, I swear the Falls and Soviet airborne used to be noticeably more precise when all conditions were the same

Falls are ready to go after the drop much faster, but that's the only tangible difference. Still think all squads that don't spawn in the base should have to upgrade if they have good AI power
17 Apr 2019, 16:01 PM
#55
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 464

how about we nerf the stipid soviets guards and penals and shock troops into t 70 overpower as f
17 Apr 2019, 16:56 PM
#56
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

how about we nerf the stipid soviets guards and penals and shock troops into t 70 overpower as f


LOL - try playing Soviets for once!
17 Apr 2019, 17:08 PM
#57
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

I would have no issue to have start with other weapon and having a weapon upgrade for MP power cost reduction.

With current buff to units they are not worth 380 manpower cost.
17 Apr 2019, 17:21 PM
#58
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2019, 17:08 PMVipper
I would have no issue to have start with other weapon and having a weapon upgrade for MP power cost reduction.

With current buff to units they are not worth 380 manpower cost.


What about adding a muni upgrade and buffing them? I'd rather make them worth the high cost than have them be cheaper. All I'm saying is delay that performance a little past the drop. Can still upgrade anywhere, just like Paras
17 Apr 2019, 17:31 PM
#59
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



What about adding a muni upgrade and buffing them? I'd rather make them worth the high cost than have them be cheaper. All I'm saying is delay that performance a little past the drop. Can still upgrade anywhere, just like Paras

One has to test but if one keeps the high cost and add munition cost I would rather add 5 member and have them 5 K98 and able to upgrade with 2 Fg42.

If they have a high cost and require a weapon they should not be easy to wipes.
17 Apr 2019, 19:01 PM
#60
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2019, 17:31 PMVipper

One has to test but if one keeps the high cost and add munition cost I would rather add 5 member and have them 5 K98 and able to upgrade with 2 Fg42.

If they have a high cost and require a weapon they should not be easy to wipes.


I like that idea better than what we have now, but that might be changing the unit too much for a lot of people I feel. It seems like most people prefer them not to change
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