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OKW - Grand Offensive - Feedback

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4 Apr 2019, 09:04 AM
#141
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Apr 2019, 06:33 AMStark

I read it and i just want to say - you are a heretic! :D ;)


Acually this ability gives you option to call off-map artillery strike. It also buffs Tiger accuracy so that's also good. For me, it's a usefull ability and it's definitely not a "key" ability for EliteArmor which make that doctrine amazing in any form to restrict it only there.

Actually Tiger to Elite armor and Sturm Tiger at Grand offensive could make more sense...
But then commander upgrade would have to change to something else and Tiger/HEAT could be OP...
4 Apr 2019, 15:24 PM
#142
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Apr 2019, 06:33 AMStark

I read it and i just want to say - you are a heretic! :D ;)


I know, i know, guilty as charged! :blush:
Next commander submission: Heretic doctrine:sealed:;)
4 Apr 2019, 17:16 PM
#143
avatar of Dead Bear

Posts: 59

will double shrek + splint blob become op esp at 4v4 . dont know
5 Apr 2019, 17:29 PM
#144
avatar of SpaceCow

Posts: 47

What if they just lock the Command Panther, Tiger and Obersoldanten behind 2 setup trucks. (Im still hoping we keep the IRstgs). Locking Heavy tanks behind T3 or major takes away most advantages of the Pershing, Command Panther and Tiger (i think those are in an ok spot right now).
5 Apr 2019, 18:11 PM
#145
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

What if they just lock the Command Panther, Tiger and Obersoldanten behind 2 setup trucks. (Im still hoping we keep the IRstgs). Locking Heavy tanks behind T3 or major takes away most advantages of the Pershing, Command Panther and Tiger (i think those are in an ok spot right now).


Skipping tech is the whole problem. It punishes the player who techs.
5 Apr 2019, 18:26 PM
#146
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Apr 2019, 18:11 PMLago


Skipping tech is the whole problem. It punishes the player who techs.


No one will disagree on that.
But i think the problem is less relevant for Wehrmacht because you only have access to Puma in 1 commander, you need tanks to survive while OKW players can get access to 3 strong units in Mechanized HQ. IMO its definitely a faction design problem.

I dont know if a OKW rework is possible but if so Battlegroup HQ needs to be more attractive and Mechanized less attractive. OKW rework should also include some changes to the commanders.
Commando Panther should be moved to a 2nd tier commander for example.
It was annoying as hell to see Mobile defense in every game last year but we see "Specops" in 7/10 high rank 1vs1 and that sucks hard too.
5 Apr 2019, 18:40 PM
#147
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260



No one will disagree on that.
But i think the problem is less relevant for Wehrmacht because you only have access to Puma in 1 commander, you need tanks to survive while OKW players can get access to 3 strong units in Mechanized HQ. IMO its definitely a faction design problem.

I dont know if a OKW rework is possible but if so Battlegroup HQ needs to be more attractive and Mechanized less attractive. OKW rework should also include some changes to the commanders.
Commando Panther should be moved to a 2nd tier commander for example.
It was annoying as hell to see Mobile defense in every game last year but we see "Specops" in 7/10 high rank 1vs1 and that sucks hard too.


I've got a thread up on making Battlegroup attractive: the Jagdpanzer one.

As for Grand Offensive, I think locking it behind the SPHQ is enough. A Tiger can be worth it relative to a Panther or a Panzer IV on raw cost.

It's definitely not worth teching another truck for.
5 Apr 2019, 18:44 PM
#148
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3599 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Apr 2019, 18:40 PMLago


I've got a thread up on making Battlegroup attractive: the Jagdpanzer one.

As for Grand Offensive, I think locking it behind the SPHQ is enough. A Tiger can be worth it relative to a Panther or a Panzer IV on raw cost.

It's definitely not worth teching another truck for.


A tiger is just too good with only 2 trucks on OKW hands, that the point. Not that I'm saying it is fine with 3 trucks but there is a serious balance issue with giving a Tiger to OKW. It doesn't fit in the faction tech design.
5 Apr 2019, 20:35 PM
#149
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Apr 2019, 18:44 PMEsxile
A tiger is just too good with only 2 trucks on OKW hands, that the point. Not that I'm saying it is fine with 3 trucks but there is a serious balance issue with giving a Tiger to OKW. It doesn't fit in the faction tech design.


I don't agree. 640 MP 230 MP for a Tiger vs the Panther and OKW P4 is a meaningful decision.
5 Apr 2019, 21:08 PM
#150
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3599 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Apr 2019, 20:35 PMLago


I don't agree. 640 MP 230 MP for a Tiger vs the Panther and OKW P4 is a meaningful decision.


Command Panther is already hitting the field 90% of the time on 1vs1 and 2vs2, there is not going to have meaningful decision about it, you have a unit that counter infantry and be a persistent threat to any tank with the support of 1 or 2 camo raketen and hit the field a bit later than a OKW Pz4 would do. I mean that's not rocket science, that's what is already the way to go for OKW with any of their tank but here you make it with one of the best all around tank and far far earlier than the King Tiger which is probably already the best of this category.

Command Panther is somewhat balanced by the poor AI capacity it has, at least you can move your infantry around, a Tiger doesn't give you this luxury.

Tiger for OKW is a bad idea because OKW actual design doesn't allow such unit without making an unbalance situation. Allied factions will be even more locked into rushing Tank Destroyers or IS-2 for the Soviet.
6 Apr 2019, 09:50 AM
#151
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

The Command Panther's a call-in.

OST's in a much better position to support a Tiger, and you don't see OST Tigers much. I really don't see the problem myself.
15 Apr 2019, 15:23 PM
#152
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

At Veterancy 4 "Command Tiger" ability seems very weak especially compared "Inspire: Infantry" available from vet 1 from Kv-8 and KV-2 that has no penalties to the vehicle itself.

"Command Tiger"
Penalties: Tiger's reload time *140% and accuracy by *70%.

Infatry bonuses 25 units radius:
weapon cooldoown *75%
received accuracy *80% for 30 seconds

"Inspire infatry":
No penalties to Vehicle
Infatry within 30m will move faster and have their weapon cooldowns *80%
Costs 25 mun
15 Apr 2019, 16:17 PM
#153
avatar of Sully

Posts: 390 | Subs: 2

As others have said, the Command Tiger design is lacking. It vets too slowly to ever make the aura worth using. I'd rather see separate abilities that buff other units around the tiger, like the KV-8 and KV-2 have for a short duration rather than an activatable aura that makes the tiger impotent.

Or load it with abilities that can enable offensive movements such as long range smoke shells and/or flares.

18 Apr 2019, 21:48 PM
#154
avatar of Sully

Posts: 390 | Subs: 2

Feedback for v5.0 Changes.

IR STG could use something extra to make them worth upgrading over an LMG. I think commando-level camo would be a great addition, wouldn't need any ambush bonuses, but something to help close the distance would go a long way.
18 Apr 2019, 21:57 PM
#155
avatar of SpaceCow

Posts: 47

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Apr 2019, 21:48 PMSully
Feedback for v5.0 Changes.

IR STG could use something extra to make them worth upgrading over an LMG. I think commando-level camo would be a great addition, wouldn't need any ambush bonuses, but something to help close the distance would go a long way.


Camo could be good. It's complicated because LMG Obers are always the go to option compared to falls or IR Stgs. Still, now's the best time to adress these things.
19 Apr 2019, 12:54 PM
#156
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

What have people experienced with the timing of the Tiger in its current form? Would you even bother with a P4 when you could have a tiger out in 3 or 4 mins after.
19 Apr 2019, 15:27 PM
#157
avatar of Sully

Posts: 390 | Subs: 2

What have people experienced with the timing of the Tiger in its current form? Would you even bother with a P4 when you could have a tiger out in 3 or 4 mins after.


Pretty much the opposite. Currently getting a P4 out sooner has much more of an impact than holding out for a Command Tiger. It's certainly no Tiger Ace.
19 Apr 2019, 17:44 PM
#158
avatar of Qeit

Posts: 61

PFs are still too strong with double schrecks. 2 vet 2 squads will reliably send to Hell any LV including T-70 or Stuart. 3 squads will do the same with MV. So it's obvious that 4v4 will be totally ruined. Replace it with AT-rifles or give them Pfaust, which would work like schrecks, but deals only 90 damage (yes, I know that its strange idea, but the current situation borns even such). Or even remove 1 schreck out - yeah, it will be old Volks again, but, at least, anti-infantry firepower of PFusies is weaker. Or - make them 4 men squad initially, G43 gives 2 men, not 1.
To top it, PFs by themselves are overprised right now. They are simply not worthy that 280 mp cost.

Panzer Commander and STG are fine; Tiger, tied to final tier, is fine too (I suggest that all heavy tanks would be tied in similar way). What's not fine is Tiger vet 4 and vet 5 ability. It's straightforwardly bad.
19 Apr 2019, 17:51 PM
#159
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2019, 17:44 PMQeit
PFs are still too strong with double schrecks. 2 vet 2 squads will reliably send to Hell any LV including T-70 or Stuart. 3 squads will do the same with MV...

They are supposed to be as effective as you stated. No OPness at all. 2xPF with AT is both more expensive and also dedicated against armour.
I know its strange but at least PF are doing what they have been meant to.
19 Apr 2019, 18:44 PM
#160
avatar of Qeit

Posts: 61


They are supposed to be as effective as you stated. No OPness at all. 2xPF with AT is both more expensive and also dedicated against armour.
I know its strange but at least PF are doing what they have been meant to.

Ok then. Let's wait until PFs changes go in to the live game and see what happens.
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