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russian armor

Tank Crew (USF)

10 Mar 2019, 14:21 PM
#1
avatar of Corsin

Posts: 578

So, this might be a Gamaplay suggestion just as much as it is balance.

Suggestion is ONE of the two to be introduced to USF tank crews when disembarking.



A 15 second action when getting in or out of a tank, so it cant be spammed.

Or when the crew is out, the vehicle remains red (enemy) and cannot be crewed/captured for 10 seconds after.


Balance reasons: Main reason for this isnt to stop or stall repairs, its the fact that a USF tank charge can de-crew its low health tanks to prevent the enemy from autofiring at them. Sure you can attack ground, but its one hell of an extra micro thing to have to do while intensely manoeuvring your tanks (usually backwards in a Jackson charge with the new Ammo) and to attack ground fire a decrewed tank could easily cost you a tank, not to mention the second the crew 'teleport' out of their tank, could be as your tank fires, meaning it shoots something else and wastes a shot. So the balance reason is kinda that, it messes up enemy fire, and puts a much higher tax on their need to micro than yours from hitting a simple "teleport outside" button.
Ive seen it done, and done it alot myself, "Oh no my tank is 10% hp, quick use the targeting jamming phase shields!".

So either a slower de-crew so it cant be used as an offensive tactic to preserve tanks and waste enemy shots, OR the vehicle remains owned by the player when empty, so shots would automatically still target it, do not put an insane tax on micro while having to worry about the rest of the tanks charging or infatry etc.

Realistic reasons... I mean these are secondary in a game, but would make sense,

- A crew cannont teleport out of a tank... Its not startrek.
- A Axis tank wouldn't suddenly not fire at the big scary easy 8 in front of it, and shoot something else randomly, it would finish the shot.

10 Mar 2019, 14:23 PM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 11689 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2019, 14:21 PMCorsin

A 5 second action.

So... leave it as it is for 3 years now.
10 Mar 2019, 14:25 PM
#3
avatar of Corsin

Posts: 578

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2019, 14:23 PMKatitof

So... leave it as it is for 3 years now.


My bad, that was a typo, needs to be longer. Was Meant to be 15. I think id prefer the ownership as a change though, just so tanks targeting it dont weirdly just think "Ooh ok lets target something else, other than the vet 3 tank thats been pasting us for the last 60 seconds.
10 Mar 2019, 14:28 PM
#4
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 11689 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2019, 14:25 PMCorsin


My bad, that was a typo, needs to be longer. Was Meant to be 15. I think id prefer the ownership as a change though, just so tanks targeting it dont weirdly just think "Ooh ok lets target something else, other than the vet 3 tank thats been pasting us for the last 60 seconds.

Hahaha, I enjoy your sense of humor.

Just micro.
10 Mar 2019, 14:28 PM
#5
avatar of Farlon

Posts: 76

You know that you don't have to attack ground and just use attack move on an empty tank, right? Same can be done with abandoned weapons.
10 Mar 2019, 14:29 PM
#6
avatar of Corsin

Posts: 578

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2019, 14:28 PMFarlon
You know that you don't have to attack ground and just use attack move on an empty tank, right? Same can be done with abandoned weapons.


Yeah, but when you're in full reverse and microing a few other units, its extra micro that your opponent doesnt need to do. And like i said before, if they get out on the cusp of your reload, you've just wasted a shot. And since Jacksons new super ammo can bring any tank down super quick, and are super fast themselves, you aint gonna stop your full reverse to risk squeezing out another shot to finish what should already be dead.
ddd
10 Mar 2019, 14:30 PM
#7
avatar of ddd

Posts: 144

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2019, 14:25 PMCorsin


My bad, that was a typo, needs to be longer. Was Meant to be 15. I think id prefer the ownership as a change though, just so tanks targeting it dont weirdly just think "Ooh ok lets target something else, other than the vet 3 tank thats been pasting us for the last 60 seconds.


What about 2 minutes cooldown for recrewing tanks? Would that suffice? And for your information you dont have to target ground, you can just use attack move on decrewed tank and it will auto target. Attack ground is reserved for axis bullshit panzer smoke.
10 Mar 2019, 14:31 PM
#8
avatar of Corsin

Posts: 578

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2019, 14:30 PMddd


What about 2 minutes cooldown for recrewing tanks? Would that suffice? And for your information you dont have to target ground, you can just use attack move on decrewed tank and it will auto target. Attack ground is reserved for axis bullshit panzer smoke.


nah thats an insanely long amount of time, hell id be up for giving the crews faster repair too with a 15 second decrew speed.
The idea behind the crew was self-repair and flexibility. Not 21'st century shell targeting jamming.

Also Panzer smoke... thats doctrinal, costs ammo on an already ammo intensive faction (except when used with elite troops) and shermans get smoke shells too... which are non-doctrinal, just like their ability to casually hop out of a tank saving it.
ddd
10 Mar 2019, 14:41 PM
#9
avatar of ddd

Posts: 144

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2019, 14:31 PMCorsin


nah thats an insanely long amount of time, hell id be up for giving the crews faster repair too with a 15 second decrew speed.
The idea behind the crew was self-repair and flexibility. Not 21'st century shell targeting jamming.


There is one problem tho: decrewing your tank in the middle of battle just to avoid shot works only against bad players. There is delay already which prevents such exploits. 15 seconds wont stop people from decrewing tanks in the middle of battle because nobody decent decrews their tanks in the middle of battle already. And i repeat: you dont have to attack ground, as soon as you see enemy tank turning "white" just Q click it (or whatever your hotkey for attack move is) and your tank will shoot it automatically.

Also comparing sherman smoke with panzer tactician is silly, sherman smoke has minimum range and delay until it hits ground, panzer tactician is just one click and nearly instant effect, way less micro. Also sherman smoke costs muni too and usf is even more muni starved than ostheer.
10 Mar 2019, 14:45 PM
#10
avatar of Corsin

Posts: 578

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2019, 14:41 PMddd


There is one problem tho: decrewing your tank in the middle of battle just to avoid shot works only against bad players. There is delay already which prevents such exploits. 15 seconds wont stop people from decrewing tanks in the middle of battle because nobody decent decrews their tanks in the middle of battle already. And i repeat: you dont have to attack ground, as soon as you see enemy tank turning "white" just Q click it (or whatever your hotkey for attack move is) and your tank will shoot it automatically.



Right, but again, its another thing to do... While reversing away from 4 charging jacksons that can together 2 shot your tiger, while retreating your infantry from the calliope barrage, while moving your other infantry into position to faust, while calling in smoke barrages with mortars to cover your retreat, while trying to faust a tank (which decrewing also interrupts i noticed).

Point is, it adds to the micro pile. In some situations its fine and would be easy to get around, in others especially in bigger matches 3v3 up, it rarely works out if you're been charged by multiple players and is like a second life/chance for USF tanks mid assault. I aint gonna hang a tiger around looking at 2 fireflys and 4 other jacksons to try and squeeze off another shot since it auto fired at a tree because the tank it was focusing on suddenly got removed from its auto-target que wasting the shot.
ddd
10 Mar 2019, 14:52 PM
#11
avatar of ddd

Posts: 144

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2019, 14:45 PMCorsin



Right, but again, its another thing to do... While reversing away from 4 charging jacksons that can together 2 shot your tiger, while retreating your infatry from the calliopte barrage, while moving your other infatry into position to faust, while calling in smoke barrages with mortars to cover your retreat, while trying to faust a tank (which decrewing also interrupts i noticed).

Point is, it adds to the micro pile. In some situations its fine and would be easy to get around, in others especially in bigger matches 3v3 up, it rarely works out if you're been charged by multiple players and is like a second life/chance for USF tanks mid assault.


Your unrealistic scenario features 1 tiger (230 fuel) vs 4 jacksons and 1 calliope (700 fuel + tech cost) so i wont comment on that.

You are talking about micro pile when it comes to ostheer but did you consider what playing usf is like? Operating almost exclusivly 640hp tanks with 160 armor (which is paper thin) that have little chance to deflect anything, ATTACKING GROUND to shoot at tanks with panzer tactician (which is one click to activate), decrewing tanks for repairs (since rear echelons are useles without mines and flamer, and expensive for engineer unit to boot) while also microing mortars to smoke MGs and flanking with rifles. USF is arguably the most micro intensive faction.
10 Mar 2019, 14:55 PM
#12
avatar of Corsin

Posts: 578

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2019, 14:52 PMddd


Your unrealistic scenario features 1 tiger (230 fuel) vs 4 jacksons and 1 calliope (700 fuel + tech cost) so i wont comment on that.

You are talking about micro pile when it comes to ostheer but did you consider what playing usf is like? Operating almost exclusivly 640hp tanks with 160 armor (which is paper thin) that have little chance to deflect anything, ATTACKING GROUND to shoot at tanks with panzer tactician (which is one click to activate), decrewing tanks for repairs (since rear echelons are useles without mines and flamer, and expensive for engineer unit to boot) while also microing mortars to smoke MGs and flanking with rifles. USF is arguably the most micro intensive faction.


Again you're comparing stock vs doctrine specific. and an 'unrealistic scenario' thats happened to me twice just last night, and that ive done twice today as USF. In tank fights every shot counts, as that tank turns white, the shots are wasted on another tank. Throws focus fire out of the window.

Then again, 1200+ games as USF and your 7 games as Ostheer kinda say it all. Ironic you suggest I try USF when you dont play ost :P
10 Mar 2019, 15:13 PM
#14
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 11689 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2019, 14:55 PMCorsin


Again you're comparing stock vs doctrine specific. and an 'unrealistic scenario' thats happened to me twice just last night, and that ive done twice today as USF. In tank fights every shot counts, as that tank turns white, the shots are wasted on another tank. Throws focus fire out of the window.

Then again, 1200+ games as USF and your 7 games as Ostheer kinda say it all. Ironic you suggest I try USF when you dont play ost :P

What the hell you are talking about you?
Its YOUR OWN SCENARIO he comments on, also why did you never built anything past T2 and had just a single
armored unit with some infantry against almost 80 pop cap of vehicles? Panzer tactician gives infinitely larger advantage then decrewing in combat(and loosing a tank anyway, because your opponent isn't a noob).
Have you ever wondered why literally no one decrews in combat for any other reason then quick crit repair under some smoke cover and even that happens extremely rarely?

Something tells me your problem is playing 4v4 and only that, because yes, that is unrealistic scenario in 1v1 and 2v2.

ddd
10 Mar 2019, 15:17 PM
#15
avatar of ddd

Posts: 144

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2019, 14:55 PMCorsin


Again you're comparing stock vs doctrine specific. and an 'unrealistic scenario' thats happened to me twice just last night, and that ive done twice today as USF. In tank fights every shot counts, as that tank turns white, the shots are wasted on another tank. Throws focus fire out of the window.

Then again, 1200+ games as USF and your 7 games as Ostheer kinda say it all. Ironic you suggest I try USF when you dont play ost :P


Well i was comparing one commander with calliope (that you mentioned) versus all the panzer tactician commanders that are in the game (2 even featuring tiger). Also if you managed to pump out 700 fuel worth of vehicles against enemy 230 fuel than i salute you.

Also look at that sexy 85% winrate in 1v1 as ostheer, im basicly Ostheer God.
10 Mar 2019, 18:08 PM
#16
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1108 | Subs: 1

I was hoping this thread would be about the Popcap Feature.
Oh well, if they decrew their tank, right in front of you, you can try to steal it or kill it a lot easier. No issue here.
10 Mar 2019, 21:20 PM
#17
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 564

I was hoping this thread would be about the Popcap Feature.
Oh well, if they decrew their tank, right in front of you, you can try to steal it or kill it a lot easier. No issue here.

10 Mar 2019, 22:28 PM
#18
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 4175 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2019, 14:52 PMddd


Your unrealistic scenario features 1 tiger (230 fuel) vs 4 jacksons and 1 calliope (700 fuel + tech cost) so i wont comment on that.

You are talking about micro pile when it comes to ostheer but did you consider what playing usf is like? Operating almost exclusivly 640hp tanks with 160 armor (which is paper thin) that have little chance to deflect anything, ATTACKING GROUND to shoot at tanks with panzer tactician (which is one click to activate), decrewing tanks for repairs (since rear echelons are useles without mines and flamer, and expensive for engineer unit to boot) while also microing mortars to smoke MGs and flanking with rifles. USF is arguably the most micro intensive faction.

That claim is inaccurate, there are 8 USF commander and half of them have access to tanks with more than 640 HP.
10 Mar 2019, 23:34 PM
#19
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 564

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Mar 2019, 22:28 PMVipper

That claim is inaccurate, there are 8 USF commander and half of them have access to tanks with more than 640 HP.

Dont bother in proving certain peoples wrong facts, it is known that a certain list of people only post innacurate stats and arguments for the sake of forcing nerfs/buffs... Its a lost battle against stupidity.

10 Mar 2019, 23:57 PM
#20
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 686

15 second delay? LOL what? I think to dissaude USF players from decrewing to prevent a final shot, we should add a 3-5 sec delay to recrew in combat as well as the decrew.
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