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What do you think about Road to Kharkov in 1v1?

What do you think about Kharkov?
Option Distribution Votes
28%
28%
44%
Total votes: 25
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
11 Feb 2019, 22:53 PM
#1
avatar of Luciano

Posts: 648

Im watching VonIvan right now playing vs Paul on Road to Kharkov, he's using brits, and its really painful to watch, he's getting constantly cut off, even if he's south spawn, this gives me flashbacks to my own experiences :S . I feel like this map doesnt belong in the 1v1 poll, taking away 1 valuable veto. What do you think guys?

11 Feb 2019, 23:27 PM
#2
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1259 | Subs: 3

I've suggested it's removal for a while now. The map is too big for a 1v1 and 3rd of the map is barely even seen because of that. I've suggested this to Relic multiple times now and the response is the same each time: "despite most top 500 or so players hating this map, it is still one of the most played, so we won't be removing it".
A_E
11 Feb 2019, 23:28 PM
#3
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2023 | Subs: 4

This map just needs some simple no brain fixes.

Whoever reworked the north cutoff really needs their 'I'm a mapper I am clever' card checking. It is two red cover roads leading into it from north side with obscured sight angles. Once taken it's an absolute bitch to try and retake, possibly the worst cutoff still in the game... and this is after numerous reworks!!!

All that has to be done to fix it is give the north side some yellow cover whilst they're in the capping circle, so they can at least approach/contest without being obliterated. To do this I would move the circle so it covers the north side of the horizontal road, like so:

11 Feb 2019, 23:32 PM
#4
avatar of Luciano

Posts: 648

One of the problems I've noticed are the trees in the middle blocking everything on both sides, it denies a big portion of the map that could be used to play
11 Feb 2019, 23:54 PM
#5
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2109 | Subs: 4

It's just too thin. Once you get past the early game and the enemy has multiple mgs flanking becomes impossible unless the enemy fucks up.
11 Feb 2019, 23:55 PM
#6
avatar of Syraw

Posts: 68

There are several issues with this map.
The first one is its size as pointed bt Tric.
the two cutoffs are both badly designed, with one full of red cover/ sight blockers from defender side, and the other being basically a choke point.
I think to improve it, the two forests on each side should be removed or made less dense , the size should really be reduced in the 1v1 version.
11 Feb 2019, 23:55 PM
#7
avatar of WhiteFlash
Senior Mapmaker Badge
Benefactor 119

Posts: 1019 | Subs: 1

This map fundamentally is good. It needs some love, agreed with AE on the cutoffs, but this map could be looked at and made better, partly by making it a bit wider.

I worked on this map (it was much worse) very early in COH2 lifecycle at Relics request but time constraints did not allow for more to be done.

This map is salvageable.
ddd
11 Feb 2019, 23:56 PM
#9
avatar of ddd

Posts: 149

I like this map, if red cover from cutoffs was removed it would be good. Vonivan getting cut off is not enough reason to remove map and there is always veto. After using all your vetos on shitty maps you pretty much end up with only tournament level maps in 1v1.
12 Feb 2019, 00:07 AM
#10
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2249

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2019, 23:54 PMTobis
It's just too thin. Once you get past the early game and the enemy has multiple mgs flanking becomes impossible unless the enemy fucks up.


This^

You can't flank because there is no room to flank. Mega sight units are like 500% more effective because they can see 2/3 of the width of the map just by sitting in the center.
12 Feb 2019, 01:32 AM
#11
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 707 | Subs: 2

One thing that hurts this map is when playing against OKW. Sturms rush your cutoff (#1), then Volks blob into the other side of the map (#2). And on the south side, the sturms and volks can work together because the strong hold areas are right next to each other. One bad engagement and you are in your base the rest of the game with NO resources. GG



After playing a few matches on it, I would suggest:
- a rework of the cutoff points is mandatory. I dont think having two cutoffs is good. And if you have two cutoffs, they need to be on opposite sides of the map (since it is a little narrow).
- Rethink the SOUTHEAST side of the map. Buildings and green cover make it hard to come back out of your base. The north is a little better but has fences everywhere. Open it up a little. I like the trick of adding YELLOW cover objects on the enemy side of the green cover to deny the green for them.

EDIT: The large groves outside each base could also be changed to allow for better flanking right out of your base. I would use two hedges so you have a sight blocked path out of your base on the side of the map.

12 Feb 2019, 01:38 AM
#12
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1038

What about (also) extending the middle VP area to the sides so holding that renders the cutoff useless as long as you also hold the muni point? Would help make the cutoff less punishing in some situations.

Kinda like how Kholodny Ferma and Crossroads have it.


Like this:

(Red is new VP area)
12 Feb 2019, 03:35 AM
#13
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 363

too narrow, no gameplay flow -> awful -> please remove
12 Feb 2019, 04:22 AM
#14
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1113 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2019, 23:54 PMTobis
It's just too thin. Once you get past the early game and the enemy has multiple mgs flanking becomes impossible unless the enemy fucks up.


When we play with my pal, this is my personal veto pick, for this exact reason.
12 Feb 2019, 06:14 AM
#15
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 259

Kharkov is an horrendous map, hmg spam galore, bad cutoff placement, hard to play extensively, so blobbers are going to feel in heaven, and makes flanking impossible to counter, normally, so you see a lot of mg spam when playing on this map, which in return is totally impossible to counter( just a race for time until you get something to beat the spam, you will already be outmatched)

I guess the only good aspect to it, is that you can't get 10 minutes stomped by players who manage to camp fast like you would in Westwall or Caen.
Still, the whole map is a hassle to move around on, if you spawn north good luck with timing, you will be fighting for the cutoff the entire game, and then have to figure out how to wipe the turtling hmgs or guards and any team weapon.

Why even bother? Just remove all these bad maps from 1v1, leave the few good ones and 1v1 players are much happier.
It's not a subjective opinion, everybody has been vocal about westwall, caen, kharkov, angoville, arnhem...

Nobody is going to miss them, or complain about how there are only 4 or 5 maps in the pool.
Actually why are 2v2 maps even in 1s pool? When was the last time you had fun playing 1v1 on Karkov, minsk, or semoskiy?
Well, most of these aren't even here now, I wonder why.
12 Feb 2019, 07:25 AM
#16
avatar of Loren

Posts: 75

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2019, 23:54 PMTobis
It's just too thin. Once you get past the early game and the enemy has multiple mgs flanking becomes impossible unless the enemy fucks up.


Totally agreed. so many maps are too thin to flank.
I really don't know why relic make like this.
12 Feb 2019, 08:19 AM
#17
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 683 | Subs: 3

damn it's a 1s Thread.

I guess in 1v1 the middle HEDGE of north spawn close to the cutoff is the real bummer.

This is the thing which makes north spawn so.. unfair? (shit?) Even in 2v2, cause it does just provide cover for the south spawn
12 Feb 2019, 16:58 PM
#18
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 114

I'd rather it got straight up removed, it's not very interesting nor is it fun to play on, a rework would take to long, So if the rework is happening, remove it while its being reworked. Its fucking shit.
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