Plain and simple, I think infiltration is a stupid mechanic for a wide variety of reasons and should be removed from the game for all factions.
A few of the reasons:
- Destroying buildings is easier for some factions than others
- Unit facing/positioning and flanking are very important this game, and this mechanic pretty much just ignores that entirely (spawning squads behind MGs or next to AT guns)
- It makes it WAY too easy to harass enemy territory. Cutoffs/resource points are important and should be manuevered to. Not spawned on because the map happens to have buildings nearby
I think limiting it to buildings you can see is a pretty reasonable request if removing it from the game is asking too much.
Edit: If you disagree, explaining why would be appreciated. Rather than just a drive-by "no" and peacing out
Infiltration Troops
28 Dec 2018, 00:47 AM
#1
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
28 Dec 2018, 00:57 AM
#2
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
I am not a big fan of removing things from the game unless they have been proven not to work.
In the case of infiltration unit (which are close to airdropped units) and especially storm troopers from encirclement, I would first try another approach.
The units become available in 2 ways:
1) Able to be built from HQ for the price they have been balanced (with or without tech).
2) Able to spawned but with a high premium and long cool down.
These tools could prove enough to "fix" these units while keeping the mechanism.
That imo could solve
In the case of infiltration unit (which are close to airdropped units) and especially storm troopers from encirclement, I would first try another approach.
The units become available in 2 ways:
1) Able to be built from HQ for the price they have been balanced (with or without tech).
2) Able to spawned but with a high premium and long cool down.
These tools could prove enough to "fix" these units while keeping the mechanism.
That imo could solve
28 Dec 2018, 01:01 AM
#3
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
The units become available in 2 ways:
1) Able to be built from HQ for the price they have been balanced (with or without tech).
2) Able to spawned but with a high premium and long cool down.
These tools could prove enough to "fix" these units while keeping the mechanism.
That imo could solve
Okay so I definitely should of given a 3rd option of inputting your own changes. This would be fine with me as well. I suppose I went with outright removal because that seemed the easiest way to treat all factions the same. This would do probably do the trick
28 Dec 2018, 04:45 AM
#4
Posts: 5279
I think I too prefer the idea of weak on infiltration and having to upgrade, even if for free for potency. Additionally imo infiltration units should all be relatively squishy and thus risky. Imo if falls had a weapon upgrade they would be a shining example of infiltration troops. Squishy and expensive but high impact of positioned properly. The only glaring issue is the high DPS out of spawn
#stalinwept
28 Dec 2018, 06:10 AM
#5
Posts: 261
As an OKW player, I usually spawn JLI behind enemy snipers. I think we should keep the ability of spawning from a building not in LOS.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One question here:
Do all infiltration units have a higher decapturing rate?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One question here:
Do all infiltration units have a higher decapturing rate?
开弓没有回头箭。
28 Dec 2018, 08:54 AM
#6
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
One question here:
Do all infiltration units have a higher decapturing rate?
No as far as I can remember but I did not open the editor to check.
28 Dec 2018, 09:11 AM
#7
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
I am really surprised by how many people like this mechanic. I know it's a small sample size but I really see it as kinda cheesy.
I think it needs to be more balanced out between factions if it's gonna stay. I don't see any reason Pathfinders shouldn't be able to infiltrate when stacked up against the other squads that have the ability.
I think it needs to be more balanced out between factions if it's gonna stay. I don't see any reason Pathfinders shouldn't be able to infiltrate when stacked up against the other squads that have the ability.
28 Dec 2018, 10:47 AM
#8
Posts: 1355
Make them all come down with parachutes. This way you get some kind of warning that something is coming. Infiltration is OP/unfair as hell.
Close thread
Close thread
28 Dec 2018, 12:43 PM
#9
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Plain and simple, I think infiltration is a stupid mechanic for a wide variety of reasons and should be removed from the game for all factions.
A few of the reasons:
- Destroying buildings is easier for some factions than others
- Unit facing/positioning and flanking are very important this game, and this mechanic pretty much just ignores that entirely (spawning squads behind MGs or next to AT guns)
- It makes it WAY too easy to harass enemy territory. Cutoffs/resource points are important and should be manuevered to. Not spawned on because the map happens to have buildings nearby
I think limiting it to buildings you can see is a pretty reasonable request if removing it from the game is asking too much.
Edit: If you disagree, explaining why would be appreciated. Rather than just a drive-by "no" and peacing out
You don't need to remove the mechanic, rather than improve the counters or normalize the performance of the units spawned through infiltration.
Old Falls or pre nerf Partisans are good examples of bad implementations. Current version of units needing to upgrade their weapons is a good measure.
Flamers IMO should also be better at destroying buildings. I think that buildings should set aflame in half the time, but take twice the time to burn down. It's unfeasible to keep an engineer with flamer for minutes for a building to catch on flames.
2 nades or a single flame/white phosporous barrage should set a building in fire. Resistance should be based if they are wood/stone buildings with stone requiring a bit more.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
28 Dec 2018, 14:43 PM
#10
Posts: 311
I think infiltration is a good mechanic in the game. But they should came with their granades in "cooldown" mode.
28 Dec 2018, 16:17 PM
#11
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Flamers IMO should also be better at destroying buildings. I think that buildings should set aflame in half the time, but take twice the time to burn down. It's unfeasible to keep an engineer with flamer for minutes for a building to catch on flames.
2 nades or a single flame/white phosporous barrage should set a building in fire. Resistance should be based if they are wood/stone buildings with stone requiring a bit more.
This would also make me sufficiently happy. Mines in the doorway is my current go-to but that can only do so much. On some maps there's just too many buildings that you'll be spending all your Muni if you try to cover them
28 Dec 2018, 17:54 PM
#12
Posts: 5279
This would also make me sufficiently happy. Mines in the doorway is my current go-to but that can only do so much. On some maps there's just too many buildings that you'll be spending all your Muni if you try to cover them
Remember when mining doorways was a way to punish enemies mindlessly infiltrating behind your lines? But it was deemed OP to use your munitions to defend your flanks from the enemy popping up and wiping your units?
Biggest issue I see with infiltration units is that not all factions have equal access to a means of countering garrisons like flames. Soviet and Ost are well equipped to destroy buildings but others need much more effort and/or doctrinal resources.
#stalinwept
28 Dec 2018, 21:51 PM
#13
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Remember when mining doorways was a way to punish enemies mindlessly infiltrating behind your lines? But it was deemed OP to use your munitions to defend your flanks from the enemy popping up and wiping your units?
This gave me a chuckle
28 Dec 2018, 22:26 PM
#14
Posts: 1660
One could think of more ways to create counters instead of yet stripping out one more feature without bothering much.
Flamethrowers could all get a muni ability so after X seconds out of combat as they successfully "flame" undisturbed the empty building, they set the building on "powerful flames", that actually make the whole house collapse in a minute or few second depending on size and material.
OKW and USF engies could both get timed demo charges like para.
Ukf engies could get a charge like that as well
Flamethrowers could all get a muni ability so after X seconds out of combat as they successfully "flame" undisturbed the empty building, they set the building on "powerful flames", that actually make the whole house collapse in a minute or few second depending on size and material.
OKW and USF engies could both get timed demo charges like para.
Ukf engies could get a charge like that as well
29 Dec 2018, 16:06 PM
#15
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
One could think of more ways to create counters instead of yet stripping out one more feature without bothering much.
Yeah I get not wanting to outright remove features. I've just always felt this is a really dumb one.
Even independently of balance, it's just a silly mechanic IMO. It was one thing when it was just partisans in their old form. Now it's elite troops that upgrade to some good equipment.
29 Dec 2018, 16:36 PM
#16
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Yeah I get not wanting to outright remove features. I've just always felt this is a really dumb one.
Even independently of balance, it's just a silly mechanic IMO. It was one thing when it was just partisans in their old form. Now it's elite troops that upgrade to some good equipment.
Well the idea comes from original falls in COH, where it made some sense. Since the setting was Normandy (where falls did fight)and having an alternative way of delivering the unit to the front line compared to para's airdrop.
The mechanic does make sense for partisan and encirclement's storm troopers (even falls and JLI when they where design to counter enemy snipers) but the rest simply comes from some members of the community having a "the grass is greener..." approach.
29 Dec 2018, 16:47 PM
#17
Posts: 3053
Stnadardizing all infiltration units to have to upgrade (most likely for free like stormtroopers if balanced) to their weapons and having abilities on cooldown upon spawning would be a good idea to minimize the cheesing potential while still keeping the value of infiltration, not just of a cheesy wipe or sniper kill.
Also, having played with both the new stormtroopers and infiltration commandos IMO the route they took with stormtroopers is much better since it rewards infiltrating with good planning, whereas frankly infiltration commandos suck for actually infiltrating since there's no way for them to be raised to full combat potential with only 3 men even with good planning or whatever, so they are reduced to attempts to be used to wipe squads on retreat or kill snipers, or just spawning them ofmap, which still costs you a lot of manpower since they're 3 men still for some reason.
Also, having played with both the new stormtroopers and infiltration commandos IMO the route they took with stormtroopers is much better since it rewards infiltrating with good planning, whereas frankly infiltration commandos suck for actually infiltrating since there's no way for them to be raised to full combat potential with only 3 men even with good planning or whatever, so they are reduced to attempts to be used to wipe squads on retreat or kill snipers, or just spawning them ofmap, which still costs you a lot of manpower since they're 3 men still for some reason.
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29 Dec 2018, 17:27 PM
#18
Posts: 1660
Stnadardizing all infiltration units to have to upgrade (most likely for free like stormtroopers if balanced) to their weapons and having abilities on cooldown upon spawning would be a good idea
No, that doesn't work, has never worked and will never work.
The only reason it works with Partisans is that they are cheap to spawn just to troll the opponent when is rushing a building.
Nerfing the infiltration to this point for other units was a mistake to begin with.
Instead the idea of investing micro and munition to counter it was perfect and made sense, you secured your rear with demolition charges, mines and burning infrastructure.
The game is getting closer and closer to being an overglorified facebook game with 4 mainline into generalist and td meta and people strive to make doctrines, heavy and elite units even more irrelevant.
Hell, this isn't the game i bought, give me a refund at this point.
29 Dec 2018, 18:10 PM
#19
Posts: 3053
No, that doesn't work, has never worked and will never work.
The only reason it works with Partisans is that they are cheap to spawn just to troll the opponent when is rushing a building.
Nerfing the infiltration to this point for other units was a mistake to begin with.
Instead the idea of investing micro and munition to counter it was perfect and made sense, you secured your rear with demolition charges, mines and burning infrastructure.
The game is getting closer and closer to being an overglorified facebook game with 4 mainline into generalist and td meta and people strive to make doctrines, heavy and elite units even more irrelevant.
Hell, this isn't the game i bought, give me a refund at this point.
So 5 man commando squads popping out of buildings and immediately throwing a grenade was balanced?
Falls jumping out a building with fg42s,fausts, and bundled nades was fine and balanced?
Edit: stormtroopers and commandos are my favorite units in the game and even I think the system now is way better than it used to be.
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29 Dec 2018, 18:47 PM
#20
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
but the rest simply comes from some members of the community having a "the grass is greener..." approach.
Yeah and at a certain point I feel like you have to either commit to that approach or scrap the idea entirely.
The mechanic might not need to be evenly present on all factions, but the counterplay should.
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