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USF Tech Changes Mod Changelog

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16 Nov 2018, 20:26 PM
#1
avatar of Mithiriath
Director of Social Media Badge

Posts: 761 | Subs: 3

Hello,

Link to the mod : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1566455469

Message from Andy on the official forum :


Hey everyone,

This is the preview log for a USF tech redesign.

Mod Rationale

Due to in-house data, tournament data, and player sentiment, it has become clear that USF is in need of a little bit of help within its tech structure.

The current USF tech choices of Lieutenant or Captain, and the units within these tiers is seen as an overly punishing and restrictive choice.

This mod is an attempt to address this issue with some simple and easy to implement changes.

We would like players to test this mod, and give their feedback. Once we feel the mod is in a strong position, it will be considered for integration either in the December update or in a future update.

Changes

These changes center around a new tier 1, tier 1.5, tier 2, and tier 2.5 system. Additionally, the AAHT and Stuart have been swapped to Captain and Lieutenant tiers respectively.

Tech and Unit Changes

Platoon Command Post
  • Lieutenant can be requisitioned for 150/30; unlocks M2HB .50cal HMG Team.
  • After the Lieutenant is dispatched, the structure can be upgraded for 50 manpower and 20 fuel to unlock M20 and Stuart

Lieutenant
  • BAR removed; can be purchased for 60 munitions. BAR on an earlier LT was seen as too powerful.

Company Command Post
  • Captain can be requsitioned for 150 manpower and 30 fuel; unlocks 57mm ATG
  • After the Captain is dispatched, the structure can be upgraded for an additional 50 manpower and 20 fuel in order to unlock the Pack Howitzer and M15 AA HT.

Battalion Command Post
  • Major available after one building is fully unlocked, or after two officers are deployed.

Units/Additional

M20

The m20 has received some adjustments, as it would have arrived even later, and been even less effective within this new tech structure.
  • Manpower cost from 340 to 240
  • M20 accuracy from 0.75/0.475/0.2 to 0.55/0.45/0.25
  • Weapon accuracy increases with veterancy: +10%/+15%/+15%
  • Veterancy requirements lowered from 880/1760/3520 to 500/1000/2000
  • Veterancy 3 reduces time to plant mines by 5 seconds.
  • Veterancy 3 increases stealth detection by 10; 35 stealth detection radius from 25

Grenade Unlock

Currently not an attractive choice for current cost.
  • Fuel Cost from 25 to 15

Feedback

We would be particularly keen to get feedback on the following.
  • Timings
  • Costs
  • Tier composition
  • Overall attractiveness of this new system



Source : https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245434/usf-tech-changes-mod-changelog
16 Nov 2018, 20:29 PM
#2
16 Nov 2018, 20:34 PM
#3
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13275 | Subs: 1

First we turn Soviets into USF by modeling Penal after Riflemen.
Then we tun OKW into USF by modeling VG after Riflemen.
Now we turn USF into OKW by restructuring their tech.

Can we change we make all faction the same and change the name of the game to Age of empires?
16 Nov 2018, 20:40 PM
#4
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Nov 2018, 20:34 PMVipper
First we turn Soviets into USF by modeling Penal after Riflemen.
Then we tun OKW into USF by modeling VG after Riflemen.
Now we turn USF into OKW by restructuring their tech.

Can we change we make all faction the same and change the name of the game to Age of empires?


This is a simple question I ask people every time I read "BuT thEy ArE tOo SimiliAR!11!!"

Do you want a balanced game or do you want an asymmetric game, because you can't have both as time and time again has proven.

You want examples? The USF was given the mortar team while the OKW was given the MG34 and they swapped out the Sturmtiger for the Panzer IV. Why? Because the Armies were badly designed and needed these changes. This is also why the UKF got their AT snare for the Sappers but also needs a mobile mortar in my opinion and it's also why the USF is getting a restructure of their tech as well.

And I will keep repeating these facts until you all get it through your thick noggins.

Anyhow, on topic. Here are some recent threads I found on the issue with some valuable feedback and suggestions in my opinion:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/83096/looking-at-usf
https://www.coh2.org/topic/83604/usf-radical-design-changes-ideas

First one is basically about the overall USF teching while the 2nd one is more or less about the officers.
16 Nov 2018, 20:44 PM
#5
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

seems great changes for now
16 Nov 2018, 20:49 PM
#6
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13275 | Subs: 1



This is a simple question I ask people every time I read "BuT thEy ArE tOo SimiliAR!11!!"

Do you want a balanced game or do you want an asymmetric game, because you can't have both as time and time again has proven.
...

That is simply incorrect. Each faction can have each own unique features and the game can be balanced.Star craft is prime example of that.

The problems started when units from faction A become clones of units of faction B without taking into account the unique design of each faction.

On the other hand this is simple matter of decision. It's all about weather we want an AOE type of game or not. If they answer is yes lets get patch where all faction become similar and lets start re-balancing. Else lets decide what each faction strong and weak should be and lets stop cloning units across factions.
16 Nov 2018, 20:53 PM
#7
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Nov 2018, 20:49 PMVipper

That is simply incorrect. Each faction can have each own unique features and the game can be balanced.Star craft is prime example of that.

The problems started when units from faction A become clones of units of faction B without taking into account the unique design of each faction.

On the other hand this is simple matter of decision. It's all about weather we want an AOE type of game or not. If they answer is yes lets get patch where all faction become similar and lets start re-balancing. Else lets decide what each faction strong and weak should be and lets stop cloning units across factions.
well this does eems unique with the middle tier what is similar to okw?
16 Nov 2018, 21:08 PM
#9
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1191 | Subs: 1

I will definitely check this out when I get home. Looks really interesting just from a design standpoint though. Seems to fix most of USF's core issues without forcing drastic changes.
16 Nov 2018, 21:10 PM
#10
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

0.5 tier system is good to see. I'm hoping OKW T4 can receive the same change so Obers can hit the field earlier. Moving them to 'early' mid game timing would then allow for OKW starting power to be nerfed a bit. AA cannon and tanks would be locked behind the upgrade, possibly also the MG 34 upgrade for Obers.

Very interested to see how these changes will make USF better. They seem to hit some of the core problems while not being too drastic.
16 Nov 2018, 21:20 PM
#11
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Nov 2018, 20:49 PMVipper

That is simply incorrect. Each faction can have each own unique features and the game can be balanced.Star craft is prime example of that.

The problems started when units from faction A become clones of units of faction B without taking into account the unique design of each faction.

On the other hand this is simple matter of decision. It's all about weather we want an AOE type of game or not. If they answer is yes lets get patch where all faction become similar and lets start re-balancing. Else lets decide what each faction strong and weak should be and lets stop cloning units across factions.


Oh yeah let's compare a 20 year old game design expert team to a game full of RNG and many unknowns as well as a team of community modders, brilliant.

Age of Empires's factions are literal copies of each other and still each play very differently, if you don't believe me then do some research or ask AoE pros and they'll tell you.

The same could be done in CoH, all Armies could be given the same basic tools and then branched out from there with different abilities, structures, units, stats and so forth, hell I have even suggested many such ideas before that incorporate all basic tools needed for a practical design yet being very different to another Army.
16 Nov 2018, 21:27 PM
#12
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13275 | Subs: 1



Oh yeah let's compare a 20 year old game design expert team to a game full of RNG and many unknowns as well as a team of community modders, brilliant.

Age of Empires's factions are literal copies of each other and still each play very differently, if you don't believe me then do some research or ask AoE pros and they'll tell you.

The same could be done in CoH, all Armies could be given the same basic tools and then branched out from there with different abilities, structures, units, stats and so forth, hell I have even suggested many such ideas before that incorporate all basic tools needed for a practical design yet being very different to another Army.

My point is simple:
Either full implement similar faction now and start re-balancing.
or
Balance each faction according to individual strengths and weakness.

But PLS stop redesign the game every 6 months.
16 Nov 2018, 21:28 PM
#13
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607

This seems closer to UKF than to OKW, since they also have a tier + half step.

Would be interesting to try out, though I dislike having yet another additional layer of teching that is counter-intuitive.

edit: I do agree with the "stop redesigning every 6 months" bit.
16 Nov 2018, 21:32 PM
#14
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306

Lieutenant
BAR removed; can be purchased for 60 munitions. BAR on an earlier LT was seen as too powerful.


I don't see how a single BAR in this squad was too powerful. The Lt squad is inferior to OKW's Stumpioneer squad when comparing firepower at least for the early stage of the game. And USF needs some extra firepower in the beginning of the game.
16 Nov 2018, 21:35 PM
#15
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2

Lieutenant
BAR removed; can be purchased for 60 munitions. BAR on an earlier LT was seen as too powerful.


I don't see how a single BAR in this squad was too powerful.

In most cases, it wasn't. But now the lieutenant squad itself is coming 50 manpower and (most significantly) 20 fuel earlier. The unit comes earlier, so we're bringing its power down as a cautionary measure. Additionally, LT will always have a natural leg up over CPT as long as the LT comes with a BAR and CPT comes with nothing. It's easier (and in my opinion, better design) to balance the two tiers if neither gets a free weapon over the other.
16 Nov 2018, 21:37 PM
#16
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

I'm also assuming (by the way the patchnotes are written) that the BAR on the LT is a unit upgrade and doesn't require weapon racks?
16 Nov 2018, 21:39 PM
#17
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2

I'm also assuming (by the way the patchnotes are written) that the BAR on the LT is a unit upgrade and doesn't require weapon racks?

That's correct, just like on live the CPT doesn't need racks for his bazooka either.
16 Nov 2018, 21:39 PM
#18
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2418 | Subs: 1

Changes look very good to me.

Not sure why people complain. These changes don´t really go into the "make every faction the same" direction. They just make USF a better faction by making basic units easier to field. (MG and AT-gun)
16 Nov 2018, 21:39 PM
#19
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306


In most cases, it wasn't. But now the lieutenant squad itself is coming 50 manpower and (most significantly) 20 fuel earlier. The unit comes earlier, so we're bringing its power down as a cautionary measure. Additionally, LT will always have a natural leg up over CPT as long as the LT comes with a BAR and CPT comes with nothing. It's easier (and in my opinion, better design) to balance the two tiers if neither gets a free weapon over the other.


So, Lt will be getting a BAR via an upgrade (similar to other mainline infantry) or through weapon racks?
16 Nov 2018, 21:39 PM
#20
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2



So, Lt will be getting a BAR via an upgrade (similar to other mainline infantry) or through weapon racks?

Answered in sanders' post. It's an upgrade.
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