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Artillery Flares of OKW's Special Operations Commander

3 Nov 2018, 11:41 AM
#61
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

In fact, Okw can deny allies defence the same way with volks.


Last time I checked Volks did not have smoke grenades.
3 Nov 2018, 13:22 PM
#62
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



Last time I checked Volks did not have smoke grenades.

They do with MP40s.
3 Nov 2018, 15:58 PM
#63
avatar of MakiesKurisu

Posts: 130



Last time I checked Volks did not have smoke grenades.


Rifles did not have either.:P
lefh can smoke. And volks can kill the mg gunners straight at range if U gather 3 volks against 1 maximum or vikers
3 Nov 2018, 16:15 PM
#64
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358



Rifles did not have either.:P


Dude, its the 2018, stop living in the past. Smoke rifles squads are gone for good.


lefh can smoke. And volks can kill the mg gunners straight at range if U gather 3 volks against 1 maximum or vikers


Not even Mg42 can hold 3 squads of *anything* running straight to it (unless you clearly nooblob)
Also, vickers and maxim ARE THE SLOWEST FIRING RATE/SUPPRESSION MG's in the game, use 2 maybe to achieve that?

I dont think that point was valid at all in any kind of discussion
3 Nov 2018, 16:24 PM
#65
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



Last time I checked Volks did not have smoke grenades.

Neither do cons, Tommies, sappers, rifles or combat engies. 1 faction has a few squads with smoke, 2 have a doctrinal unit with smoke.
Yknow what volks DO have? The ability to force any MG away with 2 clicks of a button and deny any prepared position with the same. Enemy garrison? Burn it down! Sand bags? Burn. Trench or fighting pit? Yup.
Volks are the best equipped of all units in game arguably to assault an enemies position with good at all ranges weapons and the ability to burn out strong points, even without smoke..
3 Nov 2018, 16:43 PM
#66
avatar of MakiesKurisu

Posts: 130



Dude, its the 2018, stop living in the past. Smoke rifles squads are gone for good.



Not even Mg42 can hold 3 squads of *anything* running straight to it (unless you clearly nooblob)
Also, vickers and maxim ARE THE SLOWEST FIRING RATE/SUPPRESSION MG's in the game, use 2 maybe to achieve that?

I dont think that point was valid at all in any kind of discussion


That's what I mean. Straight, no need to spread them, just right click on the MG.
U got the lasting flares and could easily find the weak point on enemy lines and move ur troops in FOW and suddenly overwhelm the enemy. It has nothing to do with whether this faction is offensive or not. The intel imbalance could make anything much easier, no matter What faction use it.
3 Nov 2018, 17:48 PM
#67
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6


Neither do cons, Tommies, sappers, rifles or combat engies. 1 faction has a few squads with smoke, 2 have a doctrinal unit with smoke.
Yknow what volks DO have? The ability to force any MG away with 2 clicks of a button and deny any prepared position with the same. Enemy garrison? Burn it down! Sand bags? Burn. Trench or fighting pit? Yup.
Volks are the best equipped of all units in game arguably to assault an enemies position with good at all ranges weapons and the ability to burn out strong points, even without smoke..


It's becoming pretty boring to have you turn every discussion into Volks OP whine. Flame nades are a necessary evil because the faction has no other means of garrison or emplacement clearing (except doctrinal) but Volks are certainly not the god mode infantry you make them out to be. Flame nades are arguably worse than real grenades because they serve pretty much the same purpose except they don't wipe as many models.

But anyway this discussion was about OKW flares so I have no idea how we ended up about Volks and flame nades. I have proposed my solution, and I think it's pretty good. It has all the (balanced) pros of the current flare ability without the cons.
7 Nov 2018, 15:39 PM
#68
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



Simple, I have no problem at all explaining my point.
If USF can have free vision as a flare call-in, they have clear advantage on intel for push strategies. USF infantry has the most variety of smoke cover of all factions. So you could clearly deny MG's and Pak's that way. Later on push with riflemen and obliterate or force retreat of support weapons. Without those mainline infantry will fall to shermans/arty support and finally tanks if present.
Also it will stack directly with P-77 air support, wich needs constant vision in order to planes to keep firing.
Finally but not the least of all, such spotting abilities in allied factions will tend to overpower even more heavy hitting call-ins (to name a few 240mm/Il2 sturmoviks/UKF howitzers) and also mention allied factions have more of those.
Simply put: Offensive faction + easy recon = OP

Funny because rifle company has flares for riflemen and no one in their right mind uses that commander regularly. Also, if you’ve got multiple okw players, how is zeroing arty + flares not just as OP if not more so than flares plus an IL2 or 240mms? You’re ignoring a lot of parallel aspects of okw that are just as good with flares as usf would be. Also, did you really just call ukf howitzers “heavy hitting”? Lmao.

I’m pretty sure p47s don’t need vision but I could be wrong. That’s been the justification for the Stuka at loiter being straight up better for years (which actually also synergizes well with okw flares too).
7 Nov 2018, 16:14 PM
#69
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6


I’m pretty sure p47s don’t need vision but I could be wrong. That’s been the justification for the Stuka at loiter being straight up better for years (which actually also synergizes well with okw flares too).


Afaik the P47 strafe needs vision but German tanks usually get themselves spotted in the FOW by having their pintle mount firing at the aircraft, after which they automatically get targeted for the next strafe.
7 Nov 2018, 16:19 PM
#70
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Zeroing artillery is generally an overpriced ability that can become good only combined with an ability from another commander and even then mostly against static or slow moving targets. This is hardly a argument about how OP flares are. One should be actually asking for a better design of zeroing artillery than complaining about the flares.

Having that said flares should have much higher CD.
7 Nov 2018, 16:23 PM
#71
avatar of Syraw

Posts: 104

having played with and against it, i think it s not balanced.
I propose making in it an abilty like the british command vehicle tag. you designate a unit, and that unit is now authorized to call flares in a given range from that unit.
7 Nov 2018, 16:38 PM
#72
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Nov 2018, 16:19 PMVipper
Zeroing artillery is generally an overpriced ability that can become good only combined with an ability from another commander and even then mostly against static or slow moving targets. This is hardly a argument about how OP flares are. One should be actually asking for a better design of zeroing artillery than complaining about the flares.

Having that said flares should have much higher CD.

I was responding to distrofio’s assertion that somehow usf would be op if they had the same flares. Check the post I quoted if you want to see why I brought up zeroing I guess.
7 Nov 2018, 18:24 PM
#73
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

how about a new idea? why not have all flares DO NOT reveal fog for u to see units, it makes red dots of the type of unit on the MAP only and maybe last a bit longer.
And recon DOES reveal fog and lets u see units through fog.Edit since recon can be countered
7 Nov 2018, 19:58 PM
#74
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358


I was responding to distrofio’s assertion that somehow usf would be op if they had the same flares. Check the post I quoted if you want to see why I brought up zeroing I guess.


Obviously if you say so. I couldnt agree anymore.
Now, I want to say that jacksons are simply OP, when they get flare vision from *ANY* allied faction and they can shoot farther than any other tank. Thats OP.
Same trick, now i did it.
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