Login

russian armor

Buff Ostwind

PAGES (11)down
21 Nov 2018, 12:24 PM
#141
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


...

OTOH one needs to be careful not to create a situation where bumping into an Ostwind make you loose (generally far more expensive) Allied light without reasonable chance to escape. So that makes me wary of increasing the pen because it again gives you far too guaranteed, but due to low damage, meh results. Increasing rof on the other hand would boost potential damage vs lights, limited by clip size.

Ostwind is more expensive than most allied vehicles, in addition I proposed access to AP rounds and not buffing the standard penetration.

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 11:39 AMKatitof

Which light vehicle?
Because you most certainly do not talk about Luchs here and comparing light tank to a half truck is a lil bit.... bias enforcing.

Pls go and play with ulumulu, grown ups are trying to have a conversation.
21 Nov 2018, 12:30 PM
#142
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

ROF buff and bump pen to 50/60/70? Hardly going to hunt tanks but caught up in theitr ass its still a threat. Plus, it should be better against light tanks simply because of its cost and tech. Maybe replace blitz with something akin to button to really tie the tier together.
21 Nov 2018, 12:35 PM
#143
avatar of Thamor

Posts: 290

ROF buff & ability to increase penetration by using ammunition.
21 Nov 2018, 13:06 PM
#144
avatar of Thamor

Posts: 290

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Nov 2018, 12:19 PMVipper
Another approach would be to make Ostwind extremely good vs Light vehicles/tanks.

This could be done by giving Ostwind have access to AP rounds which is historically correct since it could fire such rounds. There even reports 37mm gun could destroy T-34.

In game the the AP round could serve as a hard counter to light tanks like the T-70, Stuart, valentine...The unit might need some additional changes like smaller size and more speed to be able to chase these units.

The Centaur already completely destroys most axis light vehicles and tanks while Ostheer seem to struggle against such vehicles.


I agree in everything you said, but it doesn't need buff to speed to chase it should be a defensive counter to those vehicles so they don't rampage freely, but it really should perform against infantry much closer to centaur.
21 Nov 2018, 13:16 PM
#145
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 13:06 PMThamor


I agree in everything you said, but it doesn't need buff to speed to chase it should be a defensive counter to those vehicles so they don't rampage freely, but it really should perform against infantry much closer to centaur.

You might be right about the speed. It rather depends on how much time it would take to kill a light tank.

Another discrepancy between Osthwind and Centaur is the armor and target size so I might be looking at that. I am not a very big fan of raising DPS.
21 Nov 2018, 22:56 PM
#146
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 12:24 PMVipper

Pls go and play with ulumulu, grown ups are trying to have a conversation.

From my personal in game experience with you, that pretend grown up you try to make yourself to be should be talking less and practicing more. 80yo knowledge is worth nothing if you have 80yo ability.

Ostwind is more expensive than most allied vehicles, in addition I proposed access to AP rounds and not buffing the standard penetration.

And Centaur is more expensive then most axis vehicles. This isn't hard, if you include all the light vehicles for whatever insane reason.
That isn't even an argument, just a bunch of words that serve no purpose.

Its cheapest medium vehicle in game, together with Centaur and flame hetzer.

AP rounds is absolutely last thing it needs, it never had any to begin with, being AA gun.
If it needs anything, moving some of its vet RoF into base gun should suffice.

It isn't falling behind Centaur 30 seconds or so, it lags 10 seconds behind in worst scenario, it hardly justifies anything else then RoF transfer from vet to base and evaluating from there.

(I suppose you're very careful with balance exclusively when it comes to allied units, if axis unit is in question, you do not seem to have anything holding you back in regards to most silly buffs)
21 Nov 2018, 23:19 PM
#147
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 22:56 PMKatitof

...

Going personal again so I will simply ignore you.
Have a nice day.
21 Nov 2018, 23:51 PM
#148
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Performance against enemy light vehicles seems pretty similar to the Centaur after some tests, so I'd say that's about right.

The problem is the Panzer IV. It's as good as an Ostwind on AI, and has the edge over enemy mediums on AT. It's almost always worth it to wait the extra 25 FU.
22 Nov 2018, 00:47 AM
#149
avatar of Smiling Tiger

Posts: 207

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 22:56 PMKatitof

AP rounds is absolutely last thing it needs, it never had any to begin with, being AA gun.
If it needs anything, moving some of its vet RoF into base gun should suffice.

It isn't falling behind Centaur 30 seconds or so, it lags 10 seconds behind in worst scenario, it hardly justifies anything else then RoF transfer from vet to base and evaluating from there.

(I suppose you're very careful with balance exclusively when it comes to allied units, if axis unit is in question, you do not seem to have anything holding you back in regards to most silly buffs)


The centaur was an AA vehicle as well, which had even smaller guns and yet it has similar penetration (from memory, havent tested yet), besides this game isnt historical and I remember you saying this many times.

Also 3-10 seconds is not a small difference, because it only takes about 2 seconds for retreating infantry to get out of range of an Ostwind and unlike the Centaur, the Ostwind cant really chase retreating infantry when its moving, because it usually misses when on the move. Also the Centaur doesn't have the same problem with attacking infantry in cover, because it either deletes light cover or fires enough rounds so that enough hit the infantry and not the cover, and doesnt create cover with its rounds, you should consider more than stationery DPS next time, because comparing two units in one type of situation and ignoring other flaws that affect DPS is incredibly dishonest.
22 Nov 2018, 01:27 AM
#150
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2018, 23:51 PMLago
Performance against enemy light vehicles seems pretty similar to the Centaur after some tests, so I'd say that's about right.

The problem is the Panzer IV. It's as good as an Ostwind on AI, and has the edge over enemy mediums on AT. It's almost always worth it to wait the extra 25 FU.

Can you pls elaborated which units you tested and what where the results?
22 Nov 2018, 05:32 AM
#151
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 369

In my ~month of play, I have yet to see this unit used.
1 Dec 2018, 00:37 AM
#152
avatar of Darkshaddowsss

Posts: 27

Part of the issue is that panzer 4s are overperforming, if they got nerfed, the ostwind would be more viable because the p4 will give enough anti-infantry. With this considered I would slightly buff the range on the ostwind and lower the AI damage on the p4. By doing this it would stop Wehrmacht from becoming more OP.
1 Dec 2018, 00:55 AM
#153
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I don't think the p4 is overperforming. It's AI feels comparable to other mediums but has an edge in tank combat. Aligns to price
1 Dec 2018, 02:08 AM
#154
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 378

in what world the p4 is overperforming LMAO
Ostwind is not viable because it doesn't do shit, and in the current meta it's not a viable option against the flurry of anty tank units allies can pull out.

Unless you have a build that can blend well with ostwind it's not going to work.
By blending I mean builds that work only in specific maps where you can use Paks and Stugs at your advantage.

The p4 seems like a better option all the time.
2 Dec 2018, 18:43 PM
#155
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Dec 2018, 02:08 AMCresc
in what world the p4 is overperforming LMAO
Ostwind is not viable because it doesn't do shit, and in the current meta it's not a viable option against the flurry of anty tank units allies can pull out.

Unless you have a build that can blend well with ostwind it's not going to work.
By blending I mean builds that work only in specific maps where you can use Paks and Stugs at your advantage.

The p4 seems like a better option all the time.


Sad… but true.

-Panzer IV is in a good spot current
-StuG G could get 55 range
-Ostwind new a hole revamp…

2 Dec 2018, 19:29 PM
#156
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

The Ostwind's only good when you need an AI vehicle NOW, or your build is so AT heavy that the extra 35 FU isn't worth it.
2 Dec 2018, 19:52 PM
#157
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

Ostwind 37mm flak could fire Composite tungsten rounds with over 64 mm of penetration, so the AP munition idea isn't too far off from reality.
3 Dec 2018, 05:11 AM
#158
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

Part of the issue is that panzer 4s are overperforming, if they got nerfed, the ostwind would be more viable because the p4 will give enough anti-infantry. With this considered I would slightly buff the range on the ostwind and lower the AI damage on the p4. By doing this it would stop Wehrmacht from becoming more OP.



If you nerfed Ost P4 then Mobile Defence into T4 becomes the only viable playstyle.

The Ostwind is simply terrible right now. Decent anti-infantry but low armour, high scatter on the move, and can't do anything vs even a Stuart or T70. It's horribly expensive for what it does, and it's vastly inferior to the Centaur. Centaur has vet 1 strafe, better damage profile, and higher armour for a similar cost. Centaur is also able to rip through Axis light armour.

Wehrmacht is strong right now but the Ostwind is definitely not in a good spot.



3 Dec 2018, 10:11 AM
#159
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3596 | Subs: 1




If you nerfed Ost P4 then Mobile Defence into T4 becomes the only viable playstyle.

The Ostwind is simply terrible right now. Decent anti-infantry but low armour, high scatter on the move, and can't do anything vs even a Stuart or T70. It's horribly expensive for what it does, and it's vastly inferior to the Centaur. Centaur has vet 1 strafe, better damage profile, and higher armour for a similar cost. Centaur is also able to rip through Axis light armour.

Wehrmacht is strong right now but the Ostwind is definitely not in a good spot.





I think he mentioned nerfing Pz4 AI, not AT. Ostwind is overshadowed by the Pz4 but the Stug still has its use meaning Pz4 AT is on the good spot.

Ostwind need to stop to deal good damage and we can compare its damage as a dot damage, it rarely kill models in one shot except if they are on the wrong side of a shotblocker.
On the other hand Pz4 doesn't need to stop to deal damage, it has the MG and the gun has enough splash damage to deal consistently even when moving. On top of that you can stop/fire/move/stop/fire/move etc... with a bit of experience. As I mentioned Ostwind damage profile is closer to dot damage than direct damage, the exact opposite with the Pz4 which will regularly kill models with one hit even on the open.
Last, Ostwind can't follow retreating squad. Well to be exact it can but has horrible moving accuracy... unlike the Pz4 AI.

Reducing Pz4 AI damage from main gun would force the Ostheer player to use Ostwind to get the AI damage. This in conjecture with a Ostwind buff could do the trick.
3 Dec 2018, 10:31 AM
#160
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Dec 2018, 10:11 AMEsxile

...
Ostwind need to stop to deal good damage and we can compare its damage as a dot damage, it rarely kill models in one shot except if they are on the wrong side of a shotblocker.
....

Ostwind can not kill a model with one shot no matter which side of shotblocker they are. It does 40 damage so that is simply incorrect.


PAGES (11)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

384 users are online: 1 member and 383 guests
Nickbn
13 posts in the last 24h
39 posts in the last week
93 posts in the last month
Registered members: 44643
Welcome our newest member, Leiliqu96
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM