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1vs1 Removing map from automatch

2 Aug 2018, 06:12 AM
#61
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1500 | Subs: 1



Garbage. You have enough vetoes to veto the maps you don´t like already. Removing more maps is just going to piss off the average Coh2 player and make the game even more dull.


Good maps never get dull, Look at the CS:GO map rotation. They've had several core maps in since 1.6.
2 Aug 2018, 06:28 AM
#62
avatar of MajorBloodnok
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2 Aug 2018, 07:02 AM
#63
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2136 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Aug 2018, 06:12 AMwuff


Good maps never get dull, Look at the CS:GO map rotation. They've had several core maps in since 1.6.


Sure but that doesn´t mean we need to delete all the less popular maps because as I said there are enough vetoes available already. The really bad maps like Montargis got removed already anyways so now vetoes are really about personal preferences.
2 Aug 2018, 07:49 AM
#64
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1500 | Subs: 1



Sure but that doesn´t mean we need to delete all the less popular maps because as I said there are enough vetoes available already. The really bad maps like Montargis got removed already anyways so now vetoes are really about personal preferences.


I agree, some what.

A less popular map doesn't mean it should be removed, because a map pool where all maps are equally popular is impossible.

However, all maps in rotation should be a certain level of quality, unfortunately the least popular maps don't meet that level imo, and being able to veto them is really poor solution.

The lower quality maps should be replaced, they're are so many better community made maps out there.
2 Aug 2018, 07:53 AM
#65
avatar of Siphon X.
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 1136 | Subs: 2


Minsk because of the vp's and line of sight issues from trees.


If you are referring to the handful of sight blocking, solitary trees scattered in the central part of the map: Those have been replaced by non sight blocking versions in DBP.
2 Aug 2018, 08:47 AM
#66
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2136 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Aug 2018, 07:49 AMwuff


I agree, some what.

A less popular map doesn't mean it should be removed, because a map pool where all maps are equally popular is impossible.

However, all maps in rotation should be a certain level of quality, unfortunately the least popular maps don't meet that level imo, and being able to veto them is really poor solution.

The lower quality maps should be replaced, they're are so many better community made maps out there.



Agree but I am not sure about the community maps. Apart from the ones from the last 2v2 map competition and Tric´s SMC maps I don´t think there are many maps that would be good enough for automatch.
2 Aug 2018, 09:08 AM
#67
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1500 | Subs: 1




Agree but I am not sure about the community maps. Apart from the ones from the last 2v2 map competition and Tric´s SMC maps I don´t think there are many maps that would be good enough for automatch.


I'm confident there are some high quality maps out there or will be in the future.

It would require resources to find and vet maps from the workshop, but I know there are members of this community like Sturm, and many others who would be willing to help.




2 Aug 2018, 12:55 PM
#68
avatar of Finndeed
Strategist Badge

Posts: 610 | Subs: 1

Arnhem Checkpoint is at its core a good map. It offers good structure in both the sector layout and the fighting spaces. Good cut off play is possible while not overly dominant, with so many good flanking routes while not overly open. I think with a good rework on certain areas of the map it could be a fantastic competitive offering. I would like to see it kept in but with changes made.

I think Minsk is pretty much a LoL map; three lanes. Its shapeless and leads to camping in both 1v1 and 2v2. The flanking routes are either too close to base or easy to block off with wire or munitions. As such it generally favours the factions with the best long range capabilities. I find it difficult to see how this map can be changed to resemble a balanced and nuanced map without such an extensive rework as to make it a new map.



2 Aug 2018, 13:07 PM
#69
avatar of nigo
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 2118 | Subs: 14

1v1 map list is not the only problem.

The problem for 3v3/4v4 crowd is trying to save horrible cluster maps like Rhev Winter:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/81563/rzhev-winter-3v3

Or Angermude:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/81173/angerm%C3%BCnde

Or Port of Hamburg

https://www.coh2.org/topic/81054/port-of-hamburg




===================


There's a lot of community maps out there in the game files and Relic discard a lot of them in the past. Maps like Ecliptic Fields (very good map in CoH1), Einhoven Country (ppl asking to getback in rotation for years), Lamberg Fall, Karelia Summer and Overgrowth.


http://www.companyofheroes.com/blog/2014/09/09/community-map-spotlight

http://www.companyofheroes.com/blog/2015/03/30/announcing-round-two-of-the-community-maps-spotlight-feature

http://www.companyofheroes.com/blog/2015/09/17/coh2-community-map-spotlight


And theres the ToW maps like Brody Tank War and Heavy Rain. Brody Tank War is a perfect map for 3v3 and 4v4 due their design is open/wide map. Brody is ready to automatch because MonoBacon did a lot of work on that.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/81246/unused-tow-relic-maps-into-automatch

4v4 and 3v3 needs more OPEN/WIDE maps desperately


But you guys prefer save these horrible cluster maps. Lets wait more 6 months to fix that or wait for CoH3 in 2019-2020 to get open/wide/good maps for teamgames.
2 Aug 2018, 14:03 PM
#70
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1669 | Subs: 2

Seems like really heated discussion here, my suggestion is a map i made for vCoH and later CoH2 (was used in a tourney back in the day), from a competitive point of view, map is pretty much mirror. If you are taking out maps and thinking of what to add.



(1-1) Bayeux

Worth a shot, if anyone wants to test it, pm.

2 Aug 2018, 14:11 PM
#71
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5055 | Subs: 19

I need good, balanced snowmaps for automatch.
2 Aug 2018, 14:13 PM
#72
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5055 | Subs: 19

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Aug 2018, 13:07 PMnigo

Or the winners on the last 2v2 mapping contest. Relic dont picked any winner map. LOLOLOL

http://www.companyofheroes.com/blog/2017/11/09/the-winners-2v2-map-making-contest


Pardon?
2 Aug 2018, 14:24 PM
#73
avatar of nigo
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 2118 | Subs: 14

Pardon?


I corrected that part. I don't remember they updated the 2v2 list.

But my my point of view remains and to complete my point:


There`s a lack of transparency in all this process. Its good to see the maps being reworked, but what's the point to rework all these terrible maps? Players will continue to veto all these cluster maps and we will need to wait more 6-12 months to receive another updated with one or two new maps (If Relic hear us).

Looks like all these work are for nothing and waste of time.

Meanwhile mappers like Whiteflash or Spanky (from competitive side) and MonoBacon (from wonderfull maps) are neglected forever and ever.

In the terms of maps, it seems the community always walk in circles or retreat. We never go further.
2 Aug 2018, 16:53 PM
#74
avatar of MajorBloodnok
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I need good, balanced snowmaps for automatch.


I accept that different skins are good for us all: they equal income for Relic, which means patches should continue. However, I see little point in running a snow map in automatch for that reason alone. i.e. change of skins

It comes down to deep snow and cold tech.

Feel free to disagree, but deep snow in automatch was a disaster, if only bcs it slowed units on retreat and enabled squad wipes. ( I don't know why deep snow still exists on Okra River). Deep snow is incompatible with 'esports'

Blizzards, OTOH, simply briefly slowed the action briefly, but if you built bonfires and had vehicles, or access to buildings, it was not insuperable. Cold tech was,however, also inimical to esports.

Having said that, not all maps in automatch are esports ready, and many never will be. So, at this stage of the game's life, talk of esports is largely superfluous anyway.

Watching seasonal COH2 is a little like watching soccer (Summer action, flowing) or say, Rugby/American football (Winter action, more structured, paused and balletic)

Accordingly, there is room to expand, not reduce, the maps available in automatch, provided the amount of vetoes are incrementally increased.

But for snow maps, there has to be more than a change of skins, otherwise Relic are close to taking money by false pretences. i.e. simply switching the texture of the maps from summer to winter is not enough. Blizzards and campfires is a way to distinguish them. (Winter maps can be vetoed, if they get to you).
2 Aug 2018, 16:56 PM
#75
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885



I accept that different skins are good for us all: they equal income for Relic, which means patches should continue. However, I see little point in running a snow map in automatch for that reason alone. i.e. change of skins

It comes down to deep snow and cold tech.

Feel free to disagree, but deep snow in automatch was a disaster, if only bcs it slowed units on retreat and enabled squad wipes. ( I don't know why deep snow still exists on Okra River). Deep snow is incompatible with 'esports'

Blizzards, OTOH, simply briefly slowed the action briefly, but if you built bonfires and had vehicles, or access to buildings, it was not insuperable. Cold tech was,however, also inimical to esports.

Having said that, not all maps in automatch are esports ready, and many never will be. So, at this stage of the game's life, talk of esports is largely superfluous anyway.

Watching seasonal COH2 is a little like watching soccer (Summer action, flowing) or say, Rugby/American football (Winter action, more structured, paused and balletic)

Accordingly, there is room to expand, not reduce, the maps available in automatch, provided the amount of vetoes are incrementally increased.

But for snow maps, there has to be more than a change of skins, otherwise Relic are close to taking money by false pretences. i.e. simply switching the texture of the maps from summer to winter is not enough. Blizzards and campfires is a way to distinguish them. (Winter maps can be vetoed, if they get to you).


There are still some winter maps in the pool, although very few. Neither of them features blizzards or deep snow. It all comes down to skins and frozen lakes. I don't think anybody even briefly though about blizzards or deep snow when saying we need more winter maps.
2 Aug 2018, 17:10 PM
#76
avatar of MajorBloodnok
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Posts: 10622 | Subs: 9



There are still some winter maps in the pool, although very few. Neither of them features blizzards or deep snow. It all comes down to skins and frozen lakes. I don't think anybody even briefly though about blizzards or deep snow when saying we need more winter maps.


You make my point for me.:thumb:
2 Aug 2018, 17:25 PM
#77
avatar of Diogenes5

Posts: 269

Why f*cking Kholdern Ferma Winter is still in the map pool after all this time is beyond me. As if the inbred map pool wasn't horrible enough. Retards at relic were like, "Let's take out Semoisky ... but leave Kholderny Winter" and half ass removal of redundant maps.
2 Aug 2018, 17:56 PM
#78
avatar of MajorBloodnok
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Patrion 314

Posts: 10622 | Subs: 9

Why f*cking Kholdern Ferma Winter is still in the map pool after all this time is beyond me. As if the inbred map pool wasn't horrible enough. Retards at relic were like, "Let's take out Semoisky ... but leave Kholderny Winter" and half ass removal of redundant maps.


Your post may be a champion rant, but it is not in any way constructive.

Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200.00
2 Aug 2018, 18:01 PM
#79
avatar of nigo
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 2118 | Subs: 14

I need good, balanced snowmaps for automatch.



Tartu Winter by Spanky:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=463700635


(2) Wintertide by Whiteflash

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=515075221


(2) Rolling Thunder by Whiteflash

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=238036492





(2 – 4) Razing Mozhaisk
- Cast into the smoke and fog of a winter's night, players are left to defend Mozhaisk, for all of its worth. With the centre focused around a claustrophobic, burning village, and outskirts of muddy fields, this map will test the mettle of even the most diverse armies.

(2 – 4) Karelia Winter
- After returning to the wilderness of Karelia, players will recognise the dense overgrowth and woodland, now blanketed in snow. With a central reservation of water dividing the map, Karelia now brings to it an element of defence never before experienced on the Northern Fronts.

(2 – 4) Jülich Winter
- The ruined city of Jülich makes a return, now with its fires extinguished and its rivers frozen. This intimate and close-quarter battlefield favours the most tenacious of commanders, but comes at a high risk: blizzards could strike at any moment in this wasteland.

(2 – 4) Derailing the DR-K320
- By now a year old, this revitalised version of Derailing the DR-K320 retuns players to the partisans' struggle, in the dense depths of the forest. Now, deep snow and occassional blizzards add further risk to those who wish to venture away from the main roads.

(4 – 6) Razor's Column
- A new addition, Razor's Column features a desperate rush through a bare and exposed outcropping, uphill into the industrial centre, where buildings, shelter and cover will solidify victory. Whoever holds the high ground will survive the winter.

(4 – 6) Foy
- Created, tested and released during the Alpha of the Western Front Armies, Foy relives the battle of Foy, in which units of the 101st Airborne left their positions within the Bois Jacques and faced an entrenched foe. With its unique shape and urban/rural combat, players will find Foy a new challenge each time they play.

(6 – 8) Bois Jacques
- Masterminded by Mirage, Bois Jacques is an entirely woodland-based map, balanced and designed for the perfect 3vs3 skirmish. This scarred, yet beautiful landscape has already hosted many an epic battle, and is destined to host many more.

(6 - 8) Schmidt
- Fresh off the press, Schmidt takes the concept of rural warfare and rivives it. With buildings dominating large, exposed roadways and hedgerows dividing the many fields and forests, each turn within the countryside of Schmidt can bring new challanges. Commanders must decide whether to hunker down and defend, or push the advantage, one field at a time.

(6 - 8) Sittard Winter
- Now listed as one of the Top 10 subscribed maps in Company of Heroes 2, Sittard has been reborn during the winter of 1944. With its bridges in ruins, the main crossings through the city feature thin ice, turning the focus of defence away from the main roads, and onto the water's edge.


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=318603951
2 Aug 2018, 18:02 PM
#80
avatar of MonolithicBacon

Posts: 952 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Aug 2018, 18:01 PMnigo






(2 – 4) Razing Mozhaisk
- Cast into the smoke and fog of a winter's night, players are left to defend Mozhaisk, for all of its worth. With the centre focused around a claustrophobic, burning village, and outskirts of muddy fields, this map will test the mettle of even the most diverse armies.

(2 – 4) Karelia Winter
- After returning to the wilderness of Karelia, players will recognise the dense overgrowth and woodland, now blanketed in snow. With a central reservation of water dividing the map, Karelia now brings to it an element of defence never before experienced on the Northern Fronts.

(2 – 4) Jülich Winter
- The ruined city of Jülich makes a return, now with its fires extinguished and its rivers frozen. This intimate and close-quarter battlefield favours the most tenacious of commanders, but comes at a high risk: blizzards could strike at any moment in this wasteland.

(2 – 4) Derailing the DR-K320
- By now a year old, this revitalised version of Derailing the DR-K320 retuns players to the partisans' struggle, in the dense depths of the forest. Now, deep snow and occassional blizzards add further risk to those who wish to venture away from the main roads.

(4 – 6) Razor's Column
- A new addition, Razor's Column features a desperate rush through a bare and exposed outcropping, uphill into the industrial centre, where buildings, shelter and cover will solidify victory. Whoever holds the high ground will survive the winter.

(4 – 6) Foy
- Created, tested and released during the Alpha of the Western Front Armies, Foy relives the battle of Foy, in which units of the 101st Airborne left their positions within the Bois Jacques and faced an entrenched foe. With its unique shape and urban/rural combat, players will find Foy a new challenge each time they play.

(6 – 8) Bois Jacques
- Masterminded by Mirage, Bois Jacques is an entirely woodland-based map, balanced and designed for the perfect 3vs3 skirmish. This scarred, yet beautiful landscape has already hosted many an epic battle, and is destined to host many more.

(6 - 8) Schmidt
- Fresh off the press, Schmidt takes the concept of rural warfare and rivives it. With buildings dominating large, exposed roadways and hedgerows dividing the many fields and forests, each turn within the countryside of Schmidt can bring new challanges. Commanders must decide whether to hunker down and defend, or push the advantage, one field at a time.

(6 - 8) Sittard Winter
- Now listed as one of the Top 10 subscribed maps in Company of Heroes 2, Sittard has been reborn during the winter of 1944. With its bridges in ruins, the main crossings through the city feature thin ice, turning the focus of defence away from the main roads, and onto the water's edge.


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=318603951




https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=253238273

(2 - 4) Karelia Winter
- Winter has struck the cliffs of Karelia, and now deep, frozen waters fill the previously empty ravines. Chosing where to make a stand is key in this winter map; while cover is still present, not all of it will work to your advantage.


That's a lot of my maps - but none of these are suitable for automatch. They would all need considerable work before they could be considered competitive.
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