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russian armor

How about we not have any T0 MG?

7 Jul 2018, 08:54 AM
#21
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 884



I LOVE a T0 build vs USF. I'm very good at it so my opponents will get frustrated and call me a spamming noob. The key is to either have your forces super scattered or super concentrated. Super scattered is to use the very edge of the map and super concentrated so you isolate a single mg and potentially steal it. Then spam light vehicles and you'll eventually win.


Yes, a stupid reason. If I'm going to have to pay friggen 25 fuel and 150 MP (almost the same cost as OKW's T1 teching) for that stupid side tech I ateast would like to have my riflemen be able to use it without dumb REs (which can't even use it if you upgrade their weapons lol) and one officer unit.
7 Jul 2018, 10:49 AM
#22
avatar of |GB| The Lnt.599

Posts: 322 | Subs: 1



I was just gonna say that, lol.


:thumbsup:
7 Jul 2018, 11:51 AM
#23
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2257 | Subs: 1

7 Jul 2018, 13:26 PM
#24
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

This thread is pretty toxic but I'll think critically here and if I'm wrong call me out, idc its my own view/take on it.

My opinion:
The MG 42 just suppresses/pins rly fast while doing decent damage and having a super wide arc. Throw pios with their increased view range in the mix and you have a wall of lead that cant be passed until you get enough for tech or have to waste MP on a mortar that may or may not smoke b/c of a bug.


IMO the only factions that lacks clear ways of clearing MG42s is simply brits. Americans have light counters with the mortar buff being decent but still lacking as USF smoke nades are still locked to REs and tech units. Soviets Maxim simply has the issue of the pay wall of T2, make of that what you will.

There are many ways to approach this but in our current build it is in-fact, had to deal with MG42s in many cases while play USF, and brits. This can be narrowed down to their tech structure but also in their lack of tools to deal with heavy MG42 builds and or emplaced-positions.


7 Jul 2018, 13:35 PM
#25
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jul 2018, 08:54 AMCODGUY


Yes, a stupid reason. If I'm going to have to pay friggen 25 fuel and 150 MP (almost the same cost as OKW's T1 teching) for that stupid side tech I ateast would like to have my riflemen be able to use it without dumb REs (which can't even use it if you upgrade their weapons lol) and one officer unit.


If USF players didn't beg for a mortar, riflemen would have the smoke. I think the 25F is probably too much to pay now, I'd lower it to 15-20.
7 Jul 2018, 13:46 PM
#26
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
This thread is pretty toxic but I'll think critically here and if I'm wrong call me out, idc its my own view/take on it.

My opinion:
The MG 42 just suppresses/pins rly fast while doing decent damage and having a super wide arc. Throw pios with their increased view range in the mix and you have a wall of lead that cant be passed until you get enough for tech or have to waste MP on a mortar that may or may not smoke b/c of a bug.


IMO the only factions that lacks clear ways of clearing MG42s is simply brits. Americans have light counters with the mortar buff being decent but still lacking as USF smoke nades are still locked to REs and tech units. Soviets Maxim simply has the issue of the pay wall of T2, make of that what you will.

There are many ways to approach this but in our current build it is in-fact, had to deal with MG42s in many cases while play USF, and brits. This can be narrowed down to their tech structure but also in their lack of tools to deal with heavy MG42 builds and or emplaced-positions.



Brits do have tools, you just need to be smarter using them than as USF and SU. Against a single mg42 build, you can ignore it early game as it will cover a very limited part of the map. If it's being carried around as gren support, you'll need to concentrate your forces if you want to engage and figure out how the mg is positioned and try to pull off an old fashioned flank like every faction can. Brit nades are the cheapest teched too. Against a heavy mg42 build, your job is a lot easier as you can get bren carrier and wipe the floor with them as Ost won't have the faust support required for each mg, hell they may have skipped T1 altogether. So as Brits, the first thing to do is determine whether or not he's spamming mgs.
7 Jul 2018, 13:50 PM
#27
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned


Brits do have tools, you just need to be smarter using them than as USF and SU. Against a single mg42 build, you can ignore it early game as it will cover a very limited part of the map. If it's being carried around as gren support, you'll need to concentrate your forces if you want to engage and figure out how the mg is positioned and try to pull off an old fashioned flank like every faction can. Brit nades are the cheapest teched too. Against a heavy mg42 build, your job is a lot easier as you can get bren carrier and wipe the floor with them as Ost won't have the faust support required for each mg, hell they may have skipped T1 altogether. So as Brits, the first thing to do is determine whether or not he's spamming mgs.

And these are only teh 0min counters. Then you have snipers, pyro and a shitload of doctrinal stuff.
7 Jul 2018, 14:29 PM
#28
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

This thread is pretty toxic but I'll think critically here and if I'm wrong call me out, idc its my own view/take on it.

My opinion:
The MG 42 just suppresses/pins rly fast while doing decent damage and having a super wide arc. Throw pios with their increased view range in the mix and you have a wall of lead that cant be passed until you get enough for tech or have to waste MP on a mortar that may or may not smoke b/c of a bug.


IMO the only factions that lacks clear ways of clearing MG42s is simply brits. Americans have light counters with the mortar buff being decent but still lacking as USF smoke nades are still locked to REs and tech units. Soviets Maxim simply has the issue of the pay wall of T2, make of that what you will.

There are many ways to approach this but in our current build it is in-fact, had to deal with MG42s in many cases while play USF, and brits. This can be narrowed down to their tech structure but also in their lack of tools to deal with heavy MG42 builds and or emplaced-positions.




That probably makes sense for team games, but not for 1v1. It doesn't seem possible to balance the game for all game modes.
7 Jul 2018, 15:46 PM
#29
avatar of TomDRV

Posts: 112



so LT or Capt tech = "free" unit + "free" grenade search ? all this without needing a RE to build a building


Fair point, I just ignore it now and get a second mortar

My favourite change would be swapping the postitions of the AT gun & AA HT tho XD. Then LT is more a light support tier (M20/MG/ATgun) and capt is more like a heavier/more mobible/more armour alternative(AAHT/howie/Stuart). So I can pick based off if I'm advancing (Capt) or defending more (Lt) rather than the AA or AT choice which I think is a bit stale.
7 Jul 2018, 17:26 PM
#30
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276



Brits do have tools, you just need to be smarter using them than as USF and SU. Against a single mg42 build, you can ignore it early game as it will cover a very limited part of the map. If it's being carried around as gren support, you'll need to concentrate your forces if you want to engage and figure out how the mg is positioned and try to pull off an old fashioned flank like every faction can. Brit nades are the cheapest teched too. Against a heavy mg42 build, your job is a lot easier as you can get bren carrier and wipe the floor with them as Ost won't have the faust support required for each mg, hell they may have skipped T1 altogether. So as Brits, the first thing to do is determine whether or not he's spamming mgs.



I’m just saying the tools needed to remove simply one MG42 is staggering due to how good it is at holding. In 2v2s the game is just a shit. The problem is the unforgiving insta suppress that makes it damn near impossible to back out of the 'trap' even at the end of the fire arc. By the second or third volley you will likely be pinned and without smoke to block the LOS you'll just have to do a full retreat. This can be difficult early game as you basically lose that squad's ability to early cap. This is particularly hard on USF and brits as USF needs the all the squads it can get for field presences, and UKF simply lacks early cheap units to cap.

I'm by no means saying the MGs shouldn't be punishing and built to hold people back, but the MG42 as it stands can determine the first 7 mins of the game if you must back your first or second squad b/c they simply walked into a pio supported mg42 which can see past its fire arc. The unit easily sets up a possible snowball effect which can roll into mid due to its AP rounds as well as the potency and earliness of the pfaust.

7 Jul 2018, 17:28 PM
#31
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276



That probably makes sense for team games, but not for 1v1. It doesn't seem possible to balance the game for all game modes.


Agreed but there are similar crossovers. IMO the best mode to look for balance is 2v2 as far as balance goes but thats my opinion.
7 Jul 2018, 17:29 PM
#32
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276



If USF players didn't beg for a mortar, riflemen would have the smoke. I think the 25F is probably too much to pay now, I'd lower it to 15-20.


Frag nade tech is too expensive for USF and should be lowered. Agreed
7 Jul 2018, 17:57 PM
#33
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jul 2018, 08:34 AMCODGUY


Have you seen what a rifle grenade does to Riflemen or Infantry Sections? Have you seen what an MG42 equipped Gren sqaud or two behind some simple sandbags can do to 3 or 4 Riflemen or Infantry Sections when they try to close in to attack or capture a point..


This just in, using units well and having combined arms is strong, big deal.

Are you suggesting that 3-4 riflemen should be allowed to a move into grens and a machine gun in green cover and win? How are you that dumb?
7 Jul 2018, 18:02 PM
#34
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned



The problem is the unforgiving insta suppress that makes it damn near impossible to back out of the 'trap' even at the end of the fire arc. By the second or third volley you will likely be pinned and without smoke to block the LOS you'll just have to do a full retreat. This can be difficult early game as you basically lose that squad's ability to early cap. This is particularly hard on USF and brits as USF needs the all the squads it can get for field presences, and UKF simply lacks early cheap units to cap.



You're just exaggerating the power of the mg42. It doesn't insta supress until vet 2/3. When Ost is getting a bunch of vetted mgs, you're getting a bunch of vetted rifle/IS. Guess what? While rifle/IS get plenty of RA bonuses mgs get none and mid-late game they just collapse at the faintest sneeze and get wiped and handed over to u.
7 Jul 2018, 18:07 PM
#35
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jul 2018, 08:54 AMCODGUY

If I'm going to have to pay friggen 25 fuel and 150 MP (almost the same cost as OKW's T1 teching)


Excuse me OKW T1 teching costs 40 fuel and 350 mp
7 Jul 2018, 20:16 PM
#36
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 884



Excuse me OKW T1 teching costs 40 fuel and 350 mp


So you have to buy a stupid halftrack first big whoop. Its still a better deal than the hoops USF has to jump through.
7 Jul 2018, 20:38 PM
#37
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jul 2018, 20:16 PMCODGUY


So you have to buy a stupid halftrack first big whoop. Its still a better deal than the hoops USF has to jump through.


Which hoops are those?

The building of a unit that unlocks access units and tech? (If this is a hoop, hoops are awesome.)

The unlocking of weapon racks that upgrades units in base by spending munis? (Unless you're unlocking racks after Major and are using that as a FRP, this just means you wait to spend munis until after you retreat.)

Or the spending of fuel to unlock access to grenades? This does set you back in rushing a vehicle of some kind, but also can earn you some easy wipes and/or team weapons early on. (Again, if this is a hoop, hoops must be a good thing.)

:P
7 Jul 2018, 23:05 PM
#38
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

i fail to see how grenades are a hoop. they also unlock smoke on 4 separate squads of whom 3 you will have received for free just by getting to tanks (starting RE, lieu/ Cap, major) and then grenades on all your rifles. its a choice, should YOU CHOSE not to get them. you dont get to twist other armies because you refuse to use the tools given to you.
the only flaw lies between your chair and keyboard
8 Jul 2018, 01:55 AM
#39
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1

Just use USFs T0 mortar and smoke ontop of the mg42. USF got a T0 mortar for a reason.


i fail to see how grenades are a hoop. they also unlock smoke on 4 separate squads of whom 3 you will have received for free just by getting to tanks (starting RE, lieu/ Cap, major) and then grenades on all your rifles. its a choice, should YOU CHOSE not to get them. you dont get to twist other armies because you refuse to use the tools given to you.
the only flaw lies between your chair and keyboard


Ur right my desk kinda tilts a bit, messes up my play. :snfPeter:
8 Jul 2018, 14:53 PM
#40
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1



Agreed but there are similar crossovers. IMO the best mode to look for balance is 2v2 as far as balance goes but thats my opinion.


1v1 players would disagree.

In any case, if the game has any e-sport aspirations, it would need to set its mind on a mode to be the "core" experience. SC, WC3, SC2 were all 1v1 focused.

Balancing things based on 2v2 would probably be the worst imo. You still can't balance it enough for the larger team games, while detracting from the core competitive focus that 1v1 is and should be.
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