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russian armor

Fix Penals

7 Jun 2018, 19:23 PM
#1
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 240

Penals are just too much of an all-rounder unit.They are a cheap unit which performes a lot better than troops which cost around the same or even more(when it comes to the Solider Price).Even if Units are upgraded they most times will loose to penals (just look at Pzfusiliers f.e.: Pzf. with G 43 Upgrade will loose to normal Penals on all distances except close combat).Penals can also fit the AT role (very effective against light vehicles like Puma and still decent against Pz 4s)while loosing only a bit of their firepower(in comparision to 4 Man Schreck squads) and they also have the Satchel nade which is good to kill tanks and structures(and infantry of players who don't keep eye contact 24/7 with all their troops).
So how is this supposed to be fair ? Obers,Volks,Grens need ammo to get at least somehow equivalent to Penals while Penals only cost Manpower

In my opinion Penals should start with only 3 SWT 40 and 3 Mosins and then get 3 AWT 40s more for some ammo (60-90)(and maybe remove the tracking ability of the satchel? / maybe make the player choose between PTRS and 6 SWT squad ? (in return the MP cost of penals could be lowered by 20)
7 Jun 2018, 20:01 PM
#2
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1364 | Subs: 1

300 MP is a cheap unit? Never mind you have to build T1 so your early field presence is bad and it takes a long time to field multiple Penals. Penals also lose 3 SVT models for PTRS (50% of DPS just like Shreks while Shreks have much better damage). AT Satchel has super short range now AND regular satchel has super long fuse - so if you lose a squad to satchel that is purely a micro error on your part. They are finally in a good place now after they were OP for a long time after the inital rework of them.
7 Jun 2018, 20:10 PM
#3
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 947

Come on they are not even good right now...
7 Jun 2018, 21:02 PM
#4
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 240

300 MP is a cheap unit? Never mind you have to build T1 so your early field presence is bad and it takes a long time to field multiple Penals. Penals also lose 3 SVT models for PTRS (50% of DPS just like Shreks while Shreks have much better damage). AT Satchel has super short range now AND regular satchel has super long fuse - so if you lose a squad to satchel that is purely a micro error on your part. They are finally in a good place now after they were OP for a long time after the inital rework of them.

300 MP is cheap for a 6 man unit which performs better than any regular infantry and even better than most doctrinal units and killing infantry with satchel is actually possible even if the enemy isn't totally AFK.F.e. MGs in buildings

Come on they are not even good right now...


That's why it is the meta at 700+ players in 1 vs 1 ...
7 Jun 2018, 21:18 PM
#5
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 420

Dude we got it you are axis fan can you please play allies and see how not OP they are if nerf penals then grens to 1 man squad cuz Weh at ww2 lacked mnapwoer and volks no faust tech for flame nades
7 Jun 2018, 21:25 PM
#6
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 11689 | Subs: 6


300 MP is cheap for a 6 man unit which performs better than any regular infantry and even better than most doctrinal units and killing infantry with satchel is actually possible even if the enemy isn't totally AFK.F.e. MGs in buildings


If penals are killing your infantry with satchel, then you do have a massive problems, but penal isn't one.
7 Jun 2018, 21:48 PM
#7
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 240



If penals are killing your infantry with satchel, then you do have a massive problems, but penal isn't one.

To me this (almost) never happens.I am just talking from experience with Soviets (btw you know that satchel only slightly needs longer to detonate than a MG needs to set up and exit a house?)

Dude we got it you are axis fan can you please play allies and see how not OP they are if nerf penals then grens to 1 man squad cuz Weh at ww2 lacked mnapwoer and volks no faust tech for flame nades

Could you please show me your playercard ? Because I have the slight feeling that You,the one who accuses me for not playing allies (even tho I do ... and I do it alot),didn't played more than 10 games with axis (this assumption is based on this sentence :
if nerf penals then grens to 1 man squad [...]and volks no faust).And btw. you are really hard to understand
7 Jun 2018, 22:01 PM
#8
avatar of Ayro

Posts: 43


(btw you know that satchel only slightly needs longer to detonate than a MG needs to set up and exit a house?)


If a penal squad approaching your MG you have to check that penal squad if they are gonna throw satchel. So Animation + Timer is enough to dodge.
7 Jun 2018, 22:08 PM
#9
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 420


To me this (almost) never happens.I am just talking from experience with Soviets (btw you know that satchel only slightly needs longer to detonate than a MG needs to set up and exit a house?)


Could you please show me your playercard ? Because I have the slight feeling that You,the one who accuses me for not playing allies (even tho I do ... and I do it alot),didn't played more than 10 games with axis (this assumption is based on this sentence :
if nerf penals then grens to 1 man squad [...]and volks no faust).And btw. you are really hard to understand
Yes but here is the thing you dont have the gamertag either but yeah lets 1v1 dude
7 Jun 2018, 22:13 PM
#10
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 1588 | Subs: 1

You absolutely right OP

If someone just had done a 7 month Penal preview patch to tweak them...
7 Jun 2018, 22:18 PM
#11
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 1762 | Subs: 1

I would rather they start with all Mosin and get to upgrade either to SVTs like now or Ptrs. Maybe even bring back the 3 instead of 2 at that point. Small price reduction of course.
Theur vet is one of their most powerful tools and I think that combined with their high raw power and then being able to transition into AT is a bit much. This game needs more choices and less brainless transitions
7 Jun 2018, 22:18 PM
#12
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 947


300 MP is cheap for a 6 man unit which performs better than any regular infantry and even better than most doctrinal units and killing infantry with satchel is actually possible even if the enemy isn't totally AFK.F.e. MGs in buildings

That's why it is the meta at 700+ players in 1 vs 1 ...


Dude...everytime I see my opponent going T1 penal strats I am happy. PPSH cons + T2 is way harder to deal with, especially for OKW.

Soviet T1 is terrible vs OKW right now, I have completly destroyed players who went Soviet T1 with OKW despite being way lower ranked than them. OKW Flak HT into Obersoldaten completly reks them because they need to upgrade PTRS on their Penals to even stay in the game and even then they can´t deal with the Flak HT because it just supresses them before they do significant damage. The only thing you need to watch out for is a M3 with Guards/PTRS penals in it. So always keep Volks and/or Rak next to your Flak HT.

It costs Soviets 85 fuel to just unlock T3 so you have plenty of time before SU76 or T70 arrives. And then you have Volks faust + Rak to deal with it.

What exactly is it that makes it hard for you to play against Penals? And are you mainly playing OKW or Ost.
7 Jun 2018, 22:51 PM
#13
avatar of Lago

Posts: 1319

Penals are fine. Nothing more, nothing less. They're about what you'd expect from premium infantry that don't get weapon upgrades. The PTRS sidegrade (3x PTRS so halved AI damage like PGrens) isn't going to kill a well microed light vehicle but does enough consistent damage to zone it.

EDIT: You do mean Penals, not Guards, right? Similar symbol and Guards actually are a potent all-rounder unit. Penals are AI or AT, not both at once.
8 Jun 2018, 07:22 AM
#14
avatar of Sandreas

Posts: 1308


Could you please show me your playercard ?


You can't ask for a player card and not showing yours!!!

Just saying B-)
8 Jun 2018, 09:33 AM
#15
avatar of Bratkartoffel

Posts: 19

What I discover, especially in temagames is, that soviets 65% of games go penals into guards into t34/85. And it seems a cheesy tactic, to make a blob (lets say 3 penals), that is very hard to stop in early-mid game. Even an mg cant stand against that.

As ost you have to micro the hell out of your units, to stop it. And finally you see yourself behind fuel advantage, so the first tanks are mostly seen on soviets side.
8 Jun 2018, 09:59 AM
#16
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 11689 | Subs: 6

What I discover, especially in temagames is, that soviets 65% of games go penals into guards into t34/85. And it seems a cheesy tactic, to make a blob (lets say 3 penals), that is very hard to stop in early-mid game. Even an mg cant stand against that.

As ost you have to micro the hell out of your units, to stop it. And finally you see yourself behind fuel advantage, so the first tanks are mostly seen on soviets side.

HMG in green cover won't have any problems against a blob like that.
Luckily, both axis factions can put down sandbags.

If you've been flanked, then you've been outmaneuvered any even cons would suffice.
8 Jun 2018, 11:59 AM
#17
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1027


If you've been flanked, then you've been outmaneuvered any even cons would suffice.


It's really not that black and white. Flanking with cons is inherently much less effective because of their worse combat performance. Penals have a much better chance to succeed because they will deal damage quicker to both the HMG and the squads defending its flanks.

Which is why I think penals as a squad are pretty well balanced, with their effectiveness being reflected in the cost. However, especially in team games they can be really hard to deal with when in blobs.
8 Jun 2018, 13:12 PM
#18
avatar of Bratkartoffel

Posts: 19

The problem is not being flanked, the prob is, that a blob of penals can run direct into an mg and bring it down, as long as there is any yellow cover, no matter if mg itself is having green cover.

Well, that all would be fine, because they are expensive, but I want to have something in my toolbox, that would stop that no brainer a- moving blobb.
8 Jun 2018, 13:53 PM
#19
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 240

Yes but here is the thing you dont have the gamertag either but yeah lets 1v1 dude

I do not care about your 1 vs 1 skills but about if you played with every fraction yet (no matter what gamemode) and since you won't show me your playercard I think that is the case (and if you want to look at mine then just search for mr.matrix300)

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jun 2018, 22:51 PMLago
Penals are fine. Nothing more, nothing less. They're about what you'd expect from premium infantry that don't get weapon upgrades.

So a 300 MP unit raping every other infantry unit,even if they cost around the same AND are upgraded for the price of ammo, is fine ? Didn't Obers just had the same issue and then got their MG 34 moved to a Upgrade (don't nail me on this.I started playing OKW a few months after this happend and only heard of it from other players)



You can't ask for a player card and not showing yours!!!

Just saying B-)

You can mine if you just search for my name but if you search his one you won't find him
8 Jun 2018, 14:00 PM
#20
avatar of Lago

Posts: 1319

So a 300 MP unit raping every other infantry unit,even if they cost around the same AND are upgraded for the price of ammo, is fine ?


They don't.
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