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Spring Update - Balance thread

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17 Apr 2018, 23:15 PM
#1
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3651 | Subs: 1

Have at it
Changes you wanted to see? Things you didn't expect to see?
17 Apr 2018, 23:25 PM
#2
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 968 | Subs: 1

No BAR changes yet


USF dream still lives.
17 Apr 2018, 23:25 PM
#3
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3221

Most of the changes seem sensible. I can't help but feel it'd have made more sense to make the 120mm mortar decrew normally though.

Lots of standardizations which is good: COH 2 has far too many inconsistencies between similar units that aren't communicated to the player.

The AVRE and Sturmtiger edits just seem unnecessary to me but I don't play teamgames so I'm not particularly informed in that area.
17 Apr 2018, 23:27 PM
#4
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607

Can someone enlighten me if the Soviet Sniper will now be a 1:1 (minus incendiary shot) with the Wehrmacht one?

The numbers don't really mean anything to me without a base of reference, and often enough saying "x was increased from 1.2 to 1.5" doesn't let me know if that means the unit is stronger or weaker as I'm not sure if the numbers means it takes more time or less time to do something.
17 Apr 2018, 23:27 PM
#5
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3651 | Subs: 1

I have long prepared for this day. Have it mod team.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/68453/what-s-op-what-s-up
17 Apr 2018, 23:27 PM
#6
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

What can I say? The dream of unique factions and build/strategy diversity is dying more and more with time. Lets just hope luck is on our side and this mad lottery will at the very least bring more ballance.
17 Apr 2018, 23:38 PM
#7
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4334

still no boforos or ST fix
17 Apr 2018, 23:39 PM
#8
avatar of Cultist_kun

Posts: 295 | Subs: 1

So far, my main complain regarding mortars, is that they shouldn't all feel the same, but rather they should provide different support buffs for their vet statuses.

For excample, USF mortal could have offensive buffs against garrisons, to fight Wehr\OKW camp play
Ost mortar could have increased scatter increased AOE, to represent fighting against larger squads.
Soviet mortar could have better accuracy and so on.

But what I REALLY want to see, is mortar having limit on how many models they can kill with one hit, like maybe 75% of the squad, leaving the last model pinned, to be finished by attacking inf. This would exclude effordless RNG wipes, but would keep MP bleed for the enemy.


What can I say? The dream of unique factions and build/strategy diversity is dying more and more with time. Lets just hope luck is on our side and this mad lottery will at the very least bring more ballance.


Tbh, thouse "unique" build\strategy never were a thing in CoH2, it was like what was the cheesier, with standatisation of few key cheese units, we might see more diversity then we have now.
17 Apr 2018, 23:57 PM
#9
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4087 | Subs: 1

1 man worse ost sniper but the same price? Glad to see the balance team applying the demo style fix (artificial removal) to other problem units.
18 Apr 2018, 00:01 AM
#10
avatar of Cultist_kun

Posts: 295 | Subs: 1

1 man worse ost sniper but the same price? Glad to see the balance team applying the demo style fix (artificial removal) to other problem units.


Because soviets have penals and clown car in the same tier, not to mention that you are fighting 4\5 men squads. The fact that soviets could have used sniper as a frontline unit without counter play, was a disign flow.

Also british sniper, is not ost clone stats vise, and ost sniper is better, but for some reason its still very usefull, dont see any reason why soviet sniper would become useless with 1 model, considering his stats got buffed in return.
18 Apr 2018, 00:28 AM
#11
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742 | Subs: 1

Hm. Some things are long overdue, others are, well, whatever at this point.

Glad to see there's an update to this old beast.

buff mod tools plz
18 Apr 2018, 00:32 AM
#12
avatar of sluzbenik

Posts: 857

I really disagree with the Soviet sniper change.

I know it's a pain, but it's counterable. The 1v1 game is going to turn into COH1 where every game was won or lost on the counter snipe. Standardizing snipers vs garrisons is another major stupid change. The sniper game in COH1 killed that game for most people, including me. You didn't have the sniper micro of a top player? Kthxbye, you have no chance to succeed at the game. I don't want to play Company of Snipers 2.

A lot of the other changes are fine, especially to mortars, but really this game is going symmetrical, which is just lazy game design.

Generally, if you like Ostheer, well, here's your patch. Ostheer finally OP.


18 Apr 2018, 00:50 AM
#13
avatar of LiberalPerturabo

Posts: 26

Still no proper changes to okw healing. Stop trying to make sturmpio medkits a thing, they are trash and noone likes them. Just make medics a base truck upgrade, this will solve things like mech HQ almost never being built.
Also okw infantry AT is in a dire need of change.
But those are thing that are more personally important to me. I feel like there are mostly positive changes overall.
18 Apr 2018, 00:56 AM
#14
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450

The sniper changes are very good. I just wish usf had a non-doctrinal mobile jeep to counter them. You may chase them, but mgs will stop you. Factions are still having issues with certain strategies. Okw vs mgs, usf vs kubels and snipers, Ukf vs ostheer.
18 Apr 2018, 00:57 AM
#15
avatar of ClassyDavid

Posts: 424 | Subs: 2

Need a preview mod in workshop would be great.
18 Apr 2018, 00:59 AM
#16
avatar of Justin xv

Posts: 252

That Jackson change is pretty dope.

Gonna be super fun to have M36 play mitigated completely by Stugs :))
18 Apr 2018, 01:39 AM
#17
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 753 | Subs: 3

Need a preview mod in workshop would be great.


+1
18 Apr 2018, 01:44 AM
#18
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4087 | Subs: 1



Because soviets have penals and clown car in the same tier, not to mention that you are fighting 4\5 men squads. The fact that soviets could have used sniper as a frontline unit without counter play, was a disign flow.

Also british sniper, is not ost clone stats vise, and ost sniper is better, but for some reason its still very usefull, dont see any reason why soviet sniper would become useless with 1 model, considering his stats got buffed in return.

i never said that the soviet sniper was fine as is, ive even been at the heart of discussion on how to change it, this is the way to remove it from the game.
the faction that suffer most to the soviet sniper is the ost whos mainline infantry gets one of the best long range weapons on one of the most accurate squads in the game in the game making a slip up with 1 man very risky, as well as the absolutely superior German sniper


and when the ost get their sniper they also have the best machine gun in the game and a mortar.
the brit sniper works because it has other utility. it can call in arty and damage light vehcles and even then its still very niche.

pros of the ost sniper: high rof, good vet ability, FANTASITC support options including t0 mg to defend against rushes, natural access
cons: 1 man, expensive
pros of the brit sniper: EZ mode high efficiency healing, cool vet ability providing utility vs natural counters, t0 mg support, high powered infantry support, natural access, arty flare utility, reduced target size with vet.
cons: 1 man, expensive, lowish AI performance
pros of soviet sniper: once it gets vet 1 it has access to an ability it used to always have, strong infantry support (penals) scout car in tier
cons:1 man, expensive, all possible utility tied to vet, slow RoF, no MG access without side teching (fuel cost is low but mp cost is certainly not, given you are already paying the same for less in most early game units including the new sniper, cons, the maxim....), all unit in tier are expensive, only ever can heal in base and only after 250mp upgrade

so you pay the same for a unit that is undeniably worse in every possible way than its counterparts in both its intended role (killing enemy units) as well as any fall back roles (utility) while lacking any support weapons to provide indirect fire or crowd control because in that tier theres an overpowered unit?
18 Apr 2018, 01:45 AM
#19
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4087 | Subs: 1

Still no proper changes to okw healing. Stop trying to make sturmpio medkits a thing, they are trash and noone likes them. Just make medics a base truck upgrade, this will solve things like mech HQ almost never being built.
Also okw infantry AT is in a dire need of change.
But those are thing that are more personally important to me. I feel like there are mostly positive changes overall.


healing 3 squads (now more) without impacting field presence is a bad thing? just because you dont like them doesnt mean they are trash...
18 Apr 2018, 02:11 AM
#20
avatar of Cultist_kun

Posts: 295 | Subs: 1


i never said that the soviet sniper was fine as is, ive even been at the heart of discussion on how to change it, this is the way to remove it from the game.
the faction that suffer most to the soviet sniper is the ost whos mainline infantry gets one of the best long range weapons on one of the most accurate squads in the game in the game making a slip up with 1 man very risky, as well as the absolutely superior German sniper


and when the ost get their sniper they also have the best machine gun in the game and a mortar.
the brit sniper works because it has other utility. it can call in arty and damage light vehcles and even then its still very niche.

pros of the ost sniper: high rof, good vet ability, FANTASITC support options including t0 mg to defend against rushes, natural access
cons: 1 man, expensive
pros of the brit sniper: EZ mode high efficiency healing, cool vet ability providing utility vs natural counters, t0 mg support, high powered infantry support, natural access, arty flare utility, reduced target size with vet.
cons: 1 man, expensive, lowish AI performance
pros of soviet sniper: once it gets vet 1 it has access to an ability it used to always have, strong infantry support (penals) scout car in tier
cons:1 man, expensive, all possible utility tied to vet, slow RoF, no MG access without side teching (fuel cost is low but mp cost is certainly not, given you are already paying the same for less in most early game units including the new sniper, cons, the maxim....), all unit in tier are expensive, only ever can heal in base and only after 250mp upgrade

so you pay the same for a unit that is undeniably worse in every possible way than its counterparts in both its intended role (killing enemy units) as well as any fall back roles (utility) while lacking any support weapons to provide indirect fire or crowd control because in that tier theres an overpowered unit?


Because factions are different. Soviet t1 is made to be aggressive, it doesn't meant to be defensive. While ostheer has supperior support weapons early on, soviet in t1 have superior inf and attack capabilities. If ostheer has sniper you can try to revial it with your scout car, ostheer has no light armor until t2 to chase your sniper, as Soviet you can have it strate of the bat.

Ost sniper meant most of the time to weak the offense, Soviet sniper is meant to weak the defense, while your troops are attacking.

But if you REALLY want an mg to cover your sniper, you always can pick commander with dshk machine gun.

Not to mention that ostheer mortar got nerfed which means that Soviet early inf play become a bit easier.
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