i seen vet3 mortar emplacment pits with 1 kill
XP comes from damage not kills.
XP values need to be looked at.
12 Apr 2018, 08:48 AM
#21
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
XP comes from damage not kills.
12 Apr 2018, 08:56 AM
#22
Posts: 2243
XP comes from damage not kills.
i know...but i want to say: mortar pit vet so fast ....its aweful.
once more: when will we get a dmg statistic for emplacments?
12 Apr 2018, 10:24 AM
#23
Posts: 911
Doing 400 damage with guaranteed acc and pen, on top of old cammo was utterly bonkers. You are basically getting First strike/ambush bonus with the added damage component.
And now it's utterly anemic, a single 200 damage shot, slopes. Compare that to the fireflies vet 3, which grants it a perminant +80 damage.
Imagine my playercard is here
12 Apr 2018, 11:52 AM
#24
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I don't expect the JP4 to have its old OP 150% damage/pen buff. But one of the best ways to balance all factions would be by making OKW vet 5 = vet 3 of the other factions. Otherwise the faction would be weaker/stronger in different game modes that adhere to more early/lategame play whichever the case. I.e. If OKWs vet 3 was equal to other factions vet 3 they'd be batshit OP in teamgames since teamgames tend to go much deeper into lategame.
This is the answer.
Make vet 1-3 give raw buffs to stats, and vet 4/5 unlock abilities. EZPZ
Something which we have seen been done.
And now it's utterly anemic, a single 200 damage shot, slopes. Compare that to the fireflies vet 3, which grants it a perminant +80 damage.
No it's not. Because FF vet 3 bonus been stupid (dmg modifiers are effy), doesn't mean we should buff all units vet 3 around it. Also, it's +40dmg since the last patch (nerfed in general)
Accuracy from 0.08/0.07/0.05 to 0.06/0.05/0.04
Moving accuracy from 0.75 to 0.55
Tulip rockets no longer cancels move commands of the vehicle it hits
Tulip rocket damage against infantry to 33%
Veterancy 3 damage bonus from 80 to 40
Also note that taking stats in isolation doesn't fare well when the unit is the one with the slowest RoF on stock units and prior to vet 3, pretty bad at dealing with mediums compared to all other TDs, for cost, cause a 200dmg model only works well against PV and vet 2 JPIV and maybe the Stug (which can out trade the FF cause it basically shoots twice per shot on the FF).
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
12 Apr 2018, 12:13 PM
#25
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
...
Also note that taking stats in isolation doesn't fare well when the unit is the one with the slowest RoF on stock units and prior to vet 3, pretty bad at dealing with mediums compared to all other TDs, for cost, cause a 200dmg model only works well against PV and vet 2 JPIV and maybe the Stug (which can out trade the FF cause it basically shoots twice per shot on the FF).
...
FF performance vs mediums is dependent on tulip it can kill a medium in 1 reload if both land.
It also has the longest mid range and it should be changed.
12 Apr 2018, 12:19 PM
#26
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
FF performance vs mediums is dependent on tulip it can kill a medium in 1 reload if both land.
It also has the longest mid range and it should be changed.
For wehatever reason, you seem to have a really hard time accepting that unies which are same role archetypes are not stat mirrors with different Skins(and this is not the first example of that).
Why a slow TD with longest reload in game should not have longest mid range exactly?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
12 Apr 2018, 12:32 PM
#27
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
For wehatever reason, you seem to have a really hard time accepting that unies which are same role archetypes are not stat mirrors with different Skins(and this is not the first example of that).
Why a slow TD with longest reload in game should not have longest mid range exactly?
Pls elaborate why in your opinion the firefly should have more mid range than JP, SU-85, M36, JT and Elephant.
In addition it does not longest reload, Elephant and JT have longer reload while having far worse accuracy.
Once more FF reload is counter weighted by tulips.
12 Apr 2018, 12:48 PM
#28
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
Pls elaborate why in your opinion the firefly should have more mid range than JP, SU-85, M36, JT and Elephant.
In addition it does not longest reload, Elephant and JT have longer reload while having far worse accuracy.
Once more FF reload is counter weighted by tulips.
Lowest DPS TD in the game should reliably hit its targets.
JP got much higher dps, self spotting, camo and decent armor and protection from infantry that can snare tanks.
SU-85 got much higher dps, self spotting and protection from infantry that can snare tanks.
M36 got much higher dps and protection from infantry that can snare tanks, its also much faster.
JT and Elephant got much higher dps, are indestructible frontally by any armor and protected by infantry that can snare tanks.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
12 Apr 2018, 12:54 PM
#29
Posts: 2243
Lowest DPS TD in the game should reliably hit its targets.
JP got much higher dps, self spotting, camo and decent armor and protection from infantry that can snare tanks.
SU-85 got much higher dps, self spotting and protection from infantry that can snare tanks.
M36 got much higher dps and protection from infantry that can snare tanks, its also much faster.
JT and Elephant got much higher dps, are indestructible frontally by any armor and protected by infantry that can snare tanks.
you forget to tell us the advantages of the firefly... (turrent TD, with stun dmg rockets and a 25muni (super cheap) commander wich buff enorm)
12 Apr 2018, 12:57 PM
#30
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
you forget to tell us the advantages of the firefly... (turrent TD, with stun dmg rockets and a 25muni (super cheap) commander wich buff enorm)
Oh yeah, you are actually right, let me fix that here then:
All the other TDs do not need to dump 100 munis every time they want to kill a tank.
Its turret rotates so slow, it might just as well be fixed gun.
Thank you ullumulu, you were useful once.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
12 Apr 2018, 13:08 PM
#31
Posts: 878
I'd love to see the SU-76's vet looked at, and the King Tiger.
The KT is really pretty lackluster when compared to getting maybe multiple PZiVs and/or Panther. I always find multiple tanks to be better than one big one as you force your opponent to make more targeting choices, some of which he will likely get wrong. A KT is just an excuse to mark target, select all, attack. Every time I bring one out (usually only because I screwed up and had my Schwerr destroyed) I am very disappointed.
There should be a reasonable chance of an OKW unit attaining vet 5 in a long game (> 1 hour). Getting vet 2 on a KT is a major achievement right now given how late it shows up.
The KT is really pretty lackluster when compared to getting maybe multiple PZiVs and/or Panther. I always find multiple tanks to be better than one big one as you force your opponent to make more targeting choices, some of which he will likely get wrong. A KT is just an excuse to mark target, select all, attack. Every time I bring one out (usually only because I screwed up and had my Schwerr destroyed) I am very disappointed.
There should be a reasonable chance of an OKW unit attaining vet 5 in a long game (> 1 hour). Getting vet 2 on a KT is a major achievement right now given how late it shows up.
12 Apr 2018, 13:16 PM
#32
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Lowest DPS TD in the game should reliably hit its targets.
JP got much higher dps, self spotting, camo and decent armor and protection from infantry that can snare tanks.
SU-85 got much higher dps, self spotting and protection from infantry that can snare tanks.
M36 got much higher dps and protection from infantry that can snare tanks, its also much faster.
JT and Elephant got much higher dps, are indestructible frontally by any armor and protected by infantry that can snare tanks.
DPS for TDs without taregt armor and size means very little. FF does not have the lowest DPS, since its depends on Tullips.
JR and ELephant do not have much higher DPS especially vs mediums. Their frontal armor and infantry are irrelevant to accuracy.
Mid accuracy for majority of units is depended on max range, FF's mid range is simply not justified.
Finally this thread about the XP values of units if you want to debate accuracy of TDs there another appropriate thread about the accuracy of TDs where you can give your theories why FF needs more mid range than the majority of units.
12 Apr 2018, 13:23 PM
#33
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
Finally this thread about the XP values of units if you want to debate accuracy of TDs there another appropriate thread about the accuracy of TDs where you can give your theories why FF needs more mid range than the majority of units.
You are hilarious.
Here, let me Quote a post that started it:
FF performance vs mediums is dependent on tulip it can kill a medium in 1 reload if both land.
It also has the longest mid range and it should be changed.
You are literally arguing and scolding yourself here.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
12 Apr 2018, 13:26 PM
#34
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
...
This thread is about XP values and not me, stop trying to derail all threads, you are goign to reach 10.000 +6.000 posts .
12 Apr 2018, 14:05 PM
#35
Posts: 2243
Oh yeah, you are actually right, let me fix that here then:
All the other TDs do not need to dump 100 munis every time they want to kill a tank.
Its turret rotates so slow, it might just as well be fixed gun.
Thank you ullumulu, you were useful once.
seems like you never played with a vet3 FF..it isnt such slow and underguned like to sell us here...in reality it has much more mobiltys as a su85 or jp4....exspacily in city/ urban maps or to drive behind view/ shot blockers...
13 Apr 2018, 03:31 AM
#36
Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1
Idk why you would compared the stats of a JT and Ele to a Firefly, considering they aren't really in the same class.
Missing with a firefly hurts significantly more than missing with a Jp4, Jackson, or Su85. If you wanted the Mid Range accuracy to be similar then the reload would have to be about similar.
Similarly comparing a vet 3 FF means you would have to compare it to a full vet su85 or jp4. Also su85/jp4 have a much smaller target size than the FF.
Missing with a firefly hurts significantly more than missing with a Jp4, Jackson, or Su85. If you wanted the Mid Range accuracy to be similar then the reload would have to be about similar.
Similarly comparing a vet 3 FF means you would have to compare it to a full vet su85 or jp4. Also su85/jp4 have a much smaller target size than the FF.
bg /l
13 Apr 2018, 06:25 AM
#37
Posts: 2243
i think you all forget to add the cheap 25muni commander upgrade and his buffs to FF...
19 Apr 2018, 16:34 PM
#38
Posts: 868 | Subs: 5
Oh yeah, you are actually right, let me fix that here then:
All the other TDs do not need to dump 100 munis every time they want to kill a tank.
Its turret rotates so slow, it might just as well be fixed gun.
Thank you ullumulu, you were useful once.
=================
I think Vipper is trying to say that he wants FF to be :
Faster, more maneuvrable, have a much faster turning turret, a much faster Reload
and a much higher DPS.
- But for it's Tulips removed (no longer 100 muni, no longer huge reload speed)
- And for all british troops to have vet 1 free tech (35muni?) snare instead. (like USF)
* Basically, he wants the FF to be a Jackson clone with range 60
* Basically, he wants Infantry Squads to have snares.
* Basically, he wants every unit in the game to be mirror-stats
Every unit should be a same stat clone with a different skin.
When are we giving KT stats to the churchill?
Ah, that would mean only one per player. Sigh. Fine.
I can't wait for the British KT-AVRE.
People complain the Soviets are useless.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
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