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What is the weakness from Jackson?

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13 Jan 2018, 18:18 PM
#101
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3596 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2018, 17:32 PMVipper

Stug is counter to medium tanks, (the same same SU-76 is) and has one of the lowest penetration of stock Tds.

[actually it is currently over-performing but is one of the few thing that keep ostheer afloat, since Panther is under-performing and T4 in general]


So you actually find great excuses for the Stug but not for the Jackson.
13 Jan 2018, 18:24 PM
#102
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2018, 16:38 PMVipper

Not really. If there is a need for it one can increase the TS of Brumbar (first decreasing the accuracy of heavy TDs).

Generally Brumbar is a unit with lots of issues, currently it also completely shutdown by heavy TDs and its role becomes purely defensive.

I would rather see it come out earlier and hold less a punch. Or get its real role of an assault gun.


One of the reason the jakson got buffed was to deal with brumbar, elephant strats. Brits and soviets do fine vs them, but usf could not do much last patch. Usf is still worse than soviets this patch.

Also, Brumbars don't have huge issues and are really good. They have high hp and armor, so i do not see your point. All of the good players are still using them.
13 Jan 2018, 18:29 PM
#103
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2018, 18:18 PMEsxile


So you actually find great excuses for the Stug but not for the Jackson.

One read my post, I say that the Stug is Op for cost.

Two Stug does not counter both medium tanks and Heavy tanks as M36 does

Three Stug is not more mobile than medium does not have a turret and can be circle strafed

Four Stug does not have a 20 range advantage over mediums

Five that fact that Ostheer have to produce 2 units one for countering medium and a second for countering heavy is actually a disadvantage and not an advantage.

and list goes on...
13 Jan 2018, 18:31 PM
#104
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2018, 16:57 PMEsxile


If it not gonna change much, what do you want to change it?



Then why again Ostheer has Stug? After all they have pak40 and shreck.
cause at gun can out range them (as they should)
13 Jan 2018, 18:32 PM
#105
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



One of the reason the jakson got buffed was to deal with brumbar, elephant strats. Brits and soviets do fine vs them, but usf could not do much last patch. Usf is still worse than soviets this patch.

Also, Brumbars don't have huge issues and are really good. They have high hp and armor, so i do not see your point. All of the good players are still using them.

Again increasing the the target of the brumbar would leave the balance as is.

Exactly what mode are we taking about where ostheer can have both an Elephant and brumbars?
13 Jan 2018, 18:34 PM
#106
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2018, 18:32 PMVipper

Again increasing the the target of the brumbar would leave the balance as is.

Exactly what mode are we taking about where ostheer can have both an Elephant and brumbars?


You are a 2v2 player, so you know any mode that is not 1v1. If it it 1v1, why do usf players always pick shermans?
13 Jan 2018, 18:37 PM
#107
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



You are a 2v2 player, so you know any mode that is not 1v1. If it it 1v1, why do usf players always pick shermans?

Actually I have played all modes, but yea I play allot of 2v2s and have not seen many brumbar Elephant combos in 2vs2.

Because Shermans are more cost efficient than PzIV.
13 Jan 2018, 18:45 PM
#108
avatar of some one

Posts: 935

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2018, 18:37 PMVipper


Because Shermans are more cost efficient than PzIV.


If you would play USF you'd know that most Cost efficient is Double Scott.
13 Jan 2018, 18:45 PM
#109
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2018, 18:37 PMVipper

Actually I have played all modes, but yea I play allot of 2v2s.

Because Shermans are more cost efficient than PzIV.


People use shermans them to pick off lone or capping squads. Usf players will avoid the parts of the maps with paks and other tanks are. You use them vs unsupported infantry, which is why people pick it over the jakson. A jakson without a target is wasted resources. This is 1v1

In 2v2 and above jaksons are built instead of sherman, but axis have plenty of counters through doctrines. The elephant with spotting scopes still exists, but the whole doctrine is not a game winner anymore.
13 Jan 2018, 18:54 PM
#110
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



If you would play USF you'd know that most Cost efficient is Double Scott.

You assumption that I do not play USF is simply wrong, you reply should be addressed at Mr.Flush, who asked "why do usf players always pick shermans?"


People use shermans them to pick off lone or capping squads...

All that is great but do not change the fact that M36 should not completely shut down the PzIV.
13 Jan 2018, 19:02 PM
#111
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2018, 18:54 PMVipper

You assumption that I do not play USF is simply wrong, you reply should be addressed at Mr.Flush, who asked "why do usf players always pick shermans?"


All that is great but do not change the fact that M36 should not completely shut down the PzIV.


Panthers completely shut down shermans. Not saying the panther is crazy viable, but p4 not being able to fight a jakson is nothing new.
13 Jan 2018, 19:10 PM
#112
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 232



Panthers completely shut down shermans. Not saying the panther is crazy viable, but p4 not being able to fight a jakson is nothing new.


This thread is about making Jackson have a weaknes and not a no brainer to build every game.

Having a way for the p4 to dominate the Jackson would give the unit a much needed weakness.
13 Jan 2018, 19:10 PM
#113
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


Panthers completely shut down shermans. Not saying the panther is crazy viable, but p4 not being able to fight a jakson is nothing new.

1v1 yes, but there is a very long list of reason why Panther do not actually work.

In addition M36 is far more cost efficient dealing with PzIV than Panther is dealing with mediums.
13 Jan 2018, 19:18 PM
#114
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450



This thread is about making Jackson have a weaknes and not a no brainer to build every game.

Having a way for the p4 to dominate the Jackson would give the unit a much needed weakness.


Then they would need something to beat p4s with :).
Soviets have t34/85
Brits have comets
Easy 8 doctrine is never used
Maybe easy 8 with no doct and additional tech required would be good compensation.
Or everyone will play soviets like last patch.
13 Jan 2018, 19:53 PM
#115
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

once more: all other tds have a weakness...which weakness has the jackson?
13 Jan 2018, 20:02 PM
#116
avatar of thepwnasorour

Posts: 42



This thread is about making Jackson have a weaknes and not a no brainer to build every game.

Having a way for the p4 to dominate the Jackson would give the unit a much needed weakness.



Think about this statement right here. If you make the P4 any stronger against the Jackson, the meta would be simple. Spam P4? why not, its the best manpower bleed medium tank in the game. Easy to tech too and now that it can deal with its only tank counter since you either made the jackson weaker or the p4 stronger there is no reason to get another tank.

"Bazooka"<----- if your medium tanks are getting destoryed by squads running around with bazookas *sigh*

Also if you want the P4 to be stronger vs the jackson, then follow that same logic the sherman and t 34 should also be stronger vs the panther. Cause the Jackson and the panther perform the same role after all and thus should be countered by all medium tanks?
13 Jan 2018, 20:03 PM
#117
avatar of thepwnasorour

Posts: 42

once more: all other tds have a weakness...which weakness has the jackson?


Havent seen a Jackson every get an infantry squad wipe hbu? Also they cost a shit ton of fuel and manpower?
13 Jan 2018, 22:12 PM
#118
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243



Havent seen a Jackson every get an infantry squad wipe hbu? Also they cost a shit ton of fuel and manpower?


it cost 5fuel more than a jagdpz4..which is shit since patch
13 Jan 2018, 22:47 PM
#119
avatar of Zansibar

Posts: 158 | Subs: 2



it cost 5fuel more than a jagdpz4..which is shit since patch


The JPIV wasnt even changed besides its camo ability. Its just as good as the jackson.

The weakness of the jackson is its non existent armor, an ostwind can fight it pretty well.

Meanwhile the JP IV and most other expensive TDs have some armor.

JPIV has 230 armor

The Jackson has 130.

This also means that the jackson is vaulnerable to mortar rounds more so than any other tank, as well as light cannons (222 20mm, AAA cannons in general.)

(Also the JP IV fires about 20% faster.)
13 Jan 2018, 22:56 PM
#120
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450

Well, i don't think 222s or ostwinds are going to knock out a jakson.
The problem is Usf do not have anything else that can deal with advanced mediums or heavies. You either hit these tanks from the front with your tds, or you flank them with mediums. The Panther is impossible to flank due to its speed, and most of the good usf mediums are hiding in bad doctrines. Soviets have the luxury of using t34/85s with mark target to quickly kill heavy tanks. They also can ram a panther making its mobility useless. Brits have tulips that stun, and the comet is pretty fast.
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