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MP40 Volks Under-performing

19 Feb 2018, 05:08 AM
#41
avatar of Rappy

Posts: 526

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2018, 10:55 AMKatitof



Now, stay with me guys but what if

My test was not against ppsh cons but normal vanilla cons.
19 Feb 2018, 09:37 AM
#42
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

Why would anyone try to brute force counter much more expensive CQC units with Volks with MP40s? Isn't that a flawed plan to begin with? MP40 Volks can get a lot of work done, as deep flankers, else yeah just stick to the STGs.

"Much more expensive"
You are so biased you don't even know basic core axis units costs (probably because you haven't played axis at all)
Volks mp40 are more expensive than cons ppsh so "Why would anyone try to brute force counter much more expensive CQC units with cons ppsh" ?
19 Feb 2018, 15:00 PM
#43
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1


"Much more expensive"
You are so biased you don't even know basic core axis units costs (probably because you haven't played axis at all)
Volks mp40 are more expensive than cons ppsh so "Why would anyone try to brute force counter much more expensive CQC units with cons ppsh" ?


You pay what? 10 more MP and around the same munitions? Many think PPSH Cons are slightly OP, so they might get tonned down in due time, if we ever get another patch :snfQuinn:
19 Feb 2018, 15:23 PM
#44
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Pppsh conscripts are OP:

1) They should not have a weapon slot once upgraded
2) They should not have access to the defensive "hit the dirt" ability (which should be timed and not toggle)
3) One should not mix bolt action rifles with smgs. The upgrade should either replace all 6 weapons or should give access to 3 SVTs to pre-patch Penal levels.

Finally all smgs should have minimum range set to 0 while all bolt action should have minimum range set to somewhere between 5-15.
19 Feb 2018, 15:56 PM
#45
avatar of A table

Posts: 249

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Feb 2018, 15:23 PMVipper
Pppsh conscripts are OP:

1) They should not have a weapon slot once upgraded
2) They should not have access to the defensive "hit the dirt" ability (which should be timed and not toggle)
3) One should not mix bolt action rifles with smgs. The upgrade should either replace all 6 weapons or should give access to 3 SVTs to pre-patch Penal levels.

Finally all smgs should have minimum range set to 0 while all bolt action should have minimum range set to somewhere between 5-15.


Point 1 and 2 are things i agree with, but i disagree on point 3. I'd rather not have 3- 4 squads of cons with SMG's running around like rambo's wrecking infantry and vehicles left, right and center.
19 Feb 2018, 16:03 PM
#46
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Feb 2018, 15:56 PMA table


Point 1 and 2 are things i agree with, but i disagree on point 3. I'd rather not have 3- 4 squads of cons with SMG's running around like rambo's wrecking infantry and vehicles left, right and center.

If Conscripts get 6 Ppsh their DPS should probably be adjusted.

The point is that long range weapons like bolt action rifles and short range weapons like smgs should not be available in the same unit.
19 Feb 2018, 16:53 PM
#47
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Didnt con ppsh used to give 6 long time ago? Since there is a commander with con ppsh and shocks it would need a more radical adjustment i think since paying munitions and having sprint as well as the flexibility of a snare and Molotov is way more attractive than spending 50% more manpowerfor a bit more durability and a gaping stomach wound as far as MP bleed goes...
19 Feb 2018, 17:07 PM
#48
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



You pay what? 10 more MP and around the same munitions? Many think PPSH Cons are slightly OP, so they might get tonned down in due time, if we ever get another patch :snfQuinn:

Costs slighly more = costs more
Much more expensive = wrong
19 Feb 2018, 17:23 PM
#49
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Didnt con ppsh used to give 6 long time ago? Since there is a commander with con ppsh and shocks it would need a more radical adjustment i think since paying munitions and having sprint as well as the flexibility of a snare and Molotov is way more attractive than spending 50% more manpowerfor a bit more durability and a gaping stomach wound as far as MP bleed goes...

Commanders should have very little influence to commander abilities available to more than one commander.

If for any reason shock and PPsh conscripts do not work well together they should simply replaced by another ability in the specific commander.

Ppsh was changes to 3 in 2014 when it was a different game, it also used to be an upgrade for shock troops.

My suggestion was not to mix bolt action with smgs, not necessarily get 6 ppsh.
19 Feb 2018, 17:28 PM
#50
avatar of A table

Posts: 249

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Feb 2018, 16:03 PMVipper

If Conscripts get 6 Ppsh their DPS should probably be adjusted.

The point is that long range weapons like bolt action rifles and short range weapons like smgs should not be available in the same unit.


That sounds reasonable, but i don't feel too well with having such cheap units having 6 SMG's in a single squad, let alone multiple. Something has to be taken to compensate for the raw firepower, perhaps the AT snare, flare mines or oorah or anything else/a combination of the 3.
19 Feb 2018, 18:01 PM
#51
avatar of RussianHamster

Posts: 88

I spoke during a week about 2 months ago what cons with PPSh are OP, I gave a replays, I gave lab tests, but nobody listened to me.
It takes 2 months, I go to coh2.org and what do I see? Peoples talkig about OP PPSh cons.
:D

P.S. Proof.
19 Feb 2018, 21:36 PM
#52
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

i said it right after the dpb release: cons with ppsh are to strong.

dont forget they have ourraah, molotovs, TA nades, super cheap, 6model squad, super heavy dmg in close combat, and not really out of glass....they have ok durability
19 Feb 2018, 22:54 PM
#53
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1


Costs slighly more = costs more
Much more expensive = wrong


The main issue is that volks are insanly more squish when compared to cons. Therefore ppsh cons vs volks mp40s the cons just tank a shit ton more then the volks can.

That and the mp40 fucking sucks
20 Feb 2018, 05:55 AM
#54
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

i said it right after the dpb release: cons with ppsh are to strong.

Against what?

dont forget they have ourraah, molotovs, TA nades, super cheap, 6model squad, super heavy dmg in close combat, and not really out of glass....they have ok durability

While you're on the "don't forget" duty, then don't forget about both axis factions having HMGs with cons are helpless against.

Plus, STG volk blobs trade very well with ppsh.
20 Feb 2018, 06:40 AM
#55
avatar of Rappy

Posts: 526

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Feb 2018, 05:55 AMKatitof

While you're on the "don't forget" duty, then don't forget about both axis factions having HMGs with cons are helpless against.


What are you a comedienne now Katitof? Cons can, if not walk through an MG34 arc, then oorah through it and either lob a molotov or PPsH the MG crew to the afterlife. Also Soviets are probably the easiest faction to flank with, seeing as Cons are so spammable. So there are plenty of options. You know this.. But just to recap, are you seriously saying MGs hard counter PPsH Conscripts? I don't know if you are playing devils advocate just to wind people up or if you just come to Soviet defense no matter what.
20 Feb 2018, 07:01 AM
#56
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Feb 2018, 05:55 AMKatitof

Against what?


While you're on the "don't forget" duty, then don't forget about both axis factions having HMGs with cons are helpless against.

Plus, STG volk blobs trade very well with ppsh.


1. sov have a better MG than OKW
2. if you dont use 2-3 squads toegther to flank a mgs...its not the fault form the cons
3. cons can run around a mg whith ouurah
4. ourrah to volks with stgs is supreisgly strong..because they lose only 1model in the way and make fast process with the volks in close combat.
20 Feb 2018, 09:46 AM
#57
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Actually PPsh conscripts have become allot better vs HMG since one can use "hit the dirt" as soon as he comes under hmg fire and keep the hmg occupied with taking little damage while other units flank.
20 Feb 2018, 10:37 AM
#58
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

I spoke during a week about 2 months ago what cons with PPSh are OP, I gave a replays, I gave lab tests, but nobody listened to me.
It takes 2 months, I go to coh2.org and what do I see? Peoples talkig about OP PPSh cons.
:D

P.S. Proof.

u overreacting then and now and i dont think they are OP but they just good, finnaly.. but thats true volks with mp40 feels like wermaht pioniers squad with 5mebers lol yes they should be buffed to ppsh cons level but maybe with higher cp and muni cost and daada problem solved but questions is will there be next patch ? or all this threads about balance are useless
20 Feb 2018, 10:52 AM
#59
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

Its a joke that volks with mp40 arent nearly good as cons with ppsh.

both needs a special commander, t1 unit (same cost), cons have 1model more, ourrah and cheaper at reinforcing....


yeah...i see a lil bit discrepancy
20 Feb 2018, 17:56 PM
#60
avatar of Two Years Gone

Posts: 29

Can't seem to bring up an Axis unit without having to automatically compare it to something the Allies have. Panther thread, AT OKW infantry thread, and now here. Shouldn't we treat them all like the separate factions they actually are?

The biggest problem I see is why go MP40 when you could just use the Sturmgewehrs? They do essentially the same thing but better. Someone said to "nerf" them but maybe make it where their fire rate is lower so they're not as good close range. Obviously also give the MP40 some kind of damage buff or quicker reload or something.
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