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MP40 Volks Under-performing

27 Dec 2017, 20:14 PM
#21
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 388

I guess I'm the only one who likes the MP40s on Volks? In urban maps, these can be used to brutal effect when you can two MP40 Volks in Ctrl Group 1 and one more in Ctrl Group 2.

They really shine when you take full advantage of their abilities like Smoke Grenades. Ctrl 1 can do the heavy lifting in the skirmish while Ctrl 2 is there for support from the rear or the flanks. Ctrl 1 losing the fight and you don't want to hit the retreat button? Have Ctrl 2 throw a Smoke Grenade to cover them as they fall back to the Field HQ while Ctrl 2 can gun down infantry that follow through the smoke. Just one example.

I find them to be enjoyable to use. Sure, they won't win every fight but they can hold their own against the Soviets in Close Quarters.

They only really suck when in one big blob, in my opinion. Use separate groups and it will make a difference.
27 Dec 2017, 21:23 PM
#22
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742 | Subs: 1

I guess smoke and flank is the enemy, not the solution? :P
27 Dec 2017, 22:56 PM
#23
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 928 | Subs: 2


Cruzz's DPS calculator but outdate
not include Volk 0.93 Rec acc buff


PPSH range 30/16/10
Mp-40 range 30/17/10

This is using the assault grenadiers' mp40s. Do we have actual confirmation that this is the weapon that volks use as well?
28 Dec 2017, 00:06 AM
#24
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6447 | Subs: 1


This is using the assault grenadiers' mp40s. Do we have actual confirmation that this is the weapon that volks use as well?

If I read the editor correctly and according to the patch notes VG use the assault grenadiers MP40.

Patch notes

Assault Package
Unlocks dual upgrades; Flamethrowers for Sturmpioneers and Assault Package for Volksgrenadiers

Volksgrenadier Assault Package
Volksgrenadier infantry can buy the upgrade to change their role and support the aggressive nature of the doctrine.

Equips all squad members with MP40’s; Assault Grenadier variant
Unlocks Smoke and HE grenade
Takes up both weapon slots
Mutually exclusive with STG upgrade
Removes access to Flame Grenade
Requires a truck to be set up
Grants 0.93 received accuracy to the squad
Costs 45 munitions
28 Dec 2017, 02:56 AM
#25
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 333


This is using the assault grenadiers' mp40s. Do we have actual confirmation that this is the weapon that volks use as well?


I check form Editor sure Volk upgrade CQC package set it add Assault gren mp40

But Data Curve outdate PPsh-41 have change ?
28 Dec 2017, 23:35 PM
#26
avatar of Storm Elite

Posts: 246

It's not the Volks (though the default Volks are garbage). It's the MP40s.

Assault Grenadiers are unusable because of how completely unviable MP40s are and have been forever.

Zero damage at all ranges, with basically the same damage output at melee range as basic Grenadier rifles.

Using any unit with MP40s right now (and for the past, like, two or more years) is just self-handicapping.
29 Dec 2017, 00:37 AM
#27
avatar of Colonel0tto
Donator 11

Posts: 89

It's not the Volks (though the default Volks are garbage). It's the MP40s.

Assault Grenadiers are unusable because of how completely unviable MP40s are and have been forever.

Zero damage at all ranges, with basically the same damage output at melee range as basic Grenadier rifles.

Using any unit with MP40s right now (and for the past, like, two or more years) is just self-handicapping.


The last line is blatantly untrue, since assault grenadiers have been always been used regularly on urban maps in all game modes.

On the main point:
MP40s are slightly weaker because they always come on units that have extra utility. Assault grenadiers can spawn immediately, can sprint and have exellent anti-building nades. MP40 upgraded volks can close distance with smoke and have nice regular nades. Having two units do exactly the same thing is just stale.

As stated before in this thread, MP40s are a situational upgrade. You're not going to use them against soviets because you won't get value out of them (no high tier squishy infantry). But using them to flank support weapons, to close range with dug-in infantry sections or to quickly kill units like pathfinders can be a good bet.
29 Dec 2017, 21:50 PM
#28
avatar of A table

Posts: 148



The last line is blatantly untrue, since assault grenadiers have been always been used regularly on urban maps in all game modes.

On the main point:
MP40s are slightly weaker because they always come on units that have extra utility. Assault grenadiers can spawn immediately, can sprint and have exellent anti-building nades. MP40 upgraded volks can close distance with smoke and have nice regular nades. Having two units do exactly the same thing is just stale.

As stated before in this thread, MP40s are a situational upgrade. You're not going to use them against soviets because you won't get value out of them (no high tier squishy infantry). But using them to flank support weapons, to close range with dug-in infantry sections or to quickly kill units like pathfinders can be a good bet.


I can certainly confirm this. I've found MP40 volks to be very decent at catching enemy units that aren't very great at CQB(like pathfinders, IS, etc) and the smoke grenade obviously is a nice offensive tool but i use it more often as an way to blind everyone when i am suppressed(which is something i have to work on...).

Unfortunaly the regular ''potato masher'' AKA model 24 grenade is really lackluster. It has no real upsides like a higher throwing distance, cheaper pricetag or lower cooldown and does squat for damage on full health, clumped up squads. As of right now, i group up my assvolksgrens with regular volks or even obers(which is counterproductive for the obers in general) in order to get halfdecent grenades in an allied squad.

Other than that, they're a nice change.
18 Feb 2018, 07:18 AM
#29
avatar of Rappy

Posts: 526

Confirmed, MP40 are a waste of time.
I carried out the aforementioned test with cons, they barely survive closing in. Pathetic addition.
18 Feb 2018, 08:04 AM
#30
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 554

it gets outdone massively by PPSH cons anyway, so it is a totally useles unit.

Dont even mention shocks, rangers, paras, commandos either.
18 Feb 2018, 10:55 AM
#31
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13805 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2018, 07:18 AMRappy
Confirmed, MP40 are a waste of time.
I carried out the aforementioned test with cons, they barely survive closing in. Pathetic addition.

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2018, 08:04 AMmortiferum
it gets outdone massively by PPSH cons anyway, so it is a totally useles unit.

Dont even mention shocks, rangers, paras, commandos either.


Now, stay with me guys but what if
18 Feb 2018, 16:29 PM
#32
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 554

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2018, 10:55 AMKatitof



Now, stay with me guys but what if


What if:

Volksgren loses all long range capability since all 5 rifles are now MP40s
Volksgren cost 10 MP more

And still cant beat the conscript )))))))

18 Feb 2018, 16:48 PM
#33
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13805 | Subs: 7



What if:

Volksgren loses all long range capability since all 5 rifles are now MP40s
Volksgren cost 10 MP more

And still cant beat the conscript )))))))


What range?
What cover?
Who approached who?
What was the vet?

I can do tests showing infantry sections losing to osttruppen you know.

If there is no actual evidence of the test, I assume it was made the same way the tests of smoking companies proving that cigarettes are not responsible for cancer but in fact cure it.
18 Feb 2018, 17:03 PM
#34
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 554

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2018, 16:48 PMKatitof

What range?
What cover?
Who approached who?
What was the vet?

I can do tests showing infantry sections losing to osttruppen you know.

If there is no actual evidence of the test, I assume it was made the same way the tests of smoking companies proving that cigarettes are not responsible for cancer but in fact cure it.


Ahhh

Range: Point blank - (Medium range is nearly auto win for conscripts from what I know since 3 rifle still out does 5 MP40s)
Cover: Nil - CQB test, where both PPSH cons and MP40 volks SHOULD excel
Vet: 0

Didnt try who approaches who, but will do next time.

In most circumstances, the PPSH cons will win out against MP-40 Volks, while having similar, if not better utility in the form of sprint, cons repair kit (if using advanced war or cons support doc), hit the dirt suppression immunity.

Both have snare, volks have smoke but loses the rather effective flame nade for a "normal" grenade of questionable effectiveness. Molotov have the retarded dance of the motherland but it is also 20 muni only, so make of it what you will.

Both upgrades are bound by cmdr choices.


18 Feb 2018, 17:04 PM
#35
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1251

I think the STGs are too good in comparison but yes I would like to see the STGs be worse at close range and Mp40s buffed at close. would be nice
18 Feb 2018, 17:48 PM
#36
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 447

They need to make volks with mp40s a separate unit. The volksgren vet is not cut out for the mp40 volks. Vet 3 ppsh cons melt vet mp40 volks.
18 Feb 2018, 23:29 PM
#37
avatar of Storm Elite

Posts: 246

Are people seriously arguing that and UPGRADE (that costs munitions) is SUPPOSED to be weak and non-threatening?

When the enemy faction has BASELINE UNITS that are ten times more threatening, while your units pose no threat to anyone, ever, the game is a complete farce in terms of design.

This isn't even a balance issue. Balance issues require minor tweaks. The COMPLETE lack of threat from both MP40 Volks and Volksgrenadiers in general is a joke.

Same conclusion as with all other aspects of Axis faction design: Allied units are all hyper threatening to Axis units, but Axis units threaten absolutely no one, ever, under any circumstances.
19 Feb 2018, 01:41 AM
#38
avatar of dk828315

Posts: 64

The main issue is how the MP40 is presented in this game.
19 Feb 2018, 02:45 AM
#39
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1251

Are people seriously arguing that and UPGRADE (that costs munitions) is SUPPOSED to be weak and non-threatening?

When the enemy faction has BASELINE UNITS that are ten times more threatening, while your units pose no threat to anyone, ever, the game is a complete farce in terms of design.

This isn't even a balance issue. Balance issues require minor tweaks. The COMPLETE lack of threat from both MP40 Volks and Volksgrenadiers in general is a joke.

Same conclusion as with all other aspects of Axis faction design: Allied units are all hyper threatening to Axis units, but Axis units threaten absolutely no one, ever, under any circumstances.


Must have never seen a potent STG volks blob. Come on guy volks aren't nearly as bad as you are playing them off to be.
19 Feb 2018, 02:48 AM
#40
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1279 | Subs: 2

Why would anyone try to brute force counter much more expensive CQC units with Volks with MP40s? Isn't that a flawed plan to begin with? MP40 Volks can get a lot of work done, as deep flankers, else yeah just stick to the STGs.
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