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OKW Vet balance and caches

OKW should...
Option Distribution Votes
6%
33%
18%
42%
Total votes: 66
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
14 Dec 2017, 18:49 PM
#1
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

Like explained multiple times in chagelog, vet 5 and 4 has been nerfed to put the faction veterancy on par with other factions vet 3.
Vet 5 squads like volks and falls, and obers and vehicles like jadgpanzer 4, king tiger and so on are getting nerfed.
Regardless of those changes being justified or not, DBP is factually levelling the scaling of units.

This implies that the lack of caches, which was a feature balancing the powerful veterancy isn't necessary anymore.


14 Dec 2017, 18:56 PM
#2
avatar of RussianHamster

Posts: 88

+1
Only OKW dont have a cashes.
If we debuffing okw vet to other faction lvl, so we need to remove all artificial brakes, like it was with 66% fuel inflow after UKF release.
14 Dec 2017, 19:27 PM
#3
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

I would prefer to see how okw works in new patch first. I would also prefer the poll not to be biased. Even if you are sure nobody will vote for "let it be as is", you should put that option in just to make sure you are not wrong. Otherwise the results are meaningless as this is a choice of lesser evil.

As for my ideal idea I would prefer at least 2 factions, one for each side to lack caches. This creates synergy between factions in team games and works against faction mirroring.
14 Dec 2017, 19:29 PM
#4
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

I would prefer to see how okw works in new patch first. I would also prefer the poll not to be biased. Even if you are sure nobody will vote for "let it be as is", you should put that option in just to make sure you are not wrong. Otherwise the results are meaningless as this is a choice of lesser evil.

The "other options" include it, and it was made exactly to avoid katitofs 2.0 to hit the button without writing anything.
If you think it shouldn't get caches just write it down.
14 Dec 2017, 19:31 PM
#5
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885


The "other options" include it, and it was made exactly to avoid katitofs 2.0 to hit the button without writing anything.
If you think it shouldn't get caches just write it down.


Sorry, but this is the definition of bias if you explicitly say that you want people to have harder time if they are against your idea. And bias results in statistical insignificance.
14 Dec 2017, 19:32 PM
#6
avatar of Swift

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1

Added the option to select "OKW should not change" for those who do not want to implement anything.
14 Dec 2017, 19:38 PM
#7
avatar of Bravus

Posts: 503

Permanently Banned
Scarvenge is soo stupid, how is possible make fuel with destroyed & fired iron?

Yeah, that is the genius gameplay reality on this game!
14 Dec 2017, 19:38 PM
#8
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



Sorry, but this is the definition of bias if you explicitly say that you want people to have harder time if they are against your idea. And bias implies statistical insignificance.


"Harder time" because they need to write it ? If they aren't literate it isn't my fault, but this thread is/was (originally) intended as poll to evaluate balancing the nerf of veterancy with either better savage or caches like all factions.
I added other ideas just for people that disagreed with those two changes or wanted okw to not change.
14 Dec 2017, 19:48 PM
#9
avatar of Swift

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1



"Harder time" because they need to write it ? If they aren't literate it isn't my fault, but this thread is/was (originally) intended as poll to evaluate balancing the nerf of veterancy with either better savage or caches like all factions.
I added other ideas just for people that disagreed with those two changes or wanted okw to not change.

Being literate has nothing to do with this.

If you're presented with an option on the fly, are you going to want to give it much attention? The way the poll was set up originally made it so that to someone only casually interested in the thread could only vote "yes" to two options or vote "vague" and then have to wax lyrical about what their vague choice meant. Other is also not representative of everyone disagreeing, since other could mean no, or another idea about where to take the faction.

It's always good to include an option that lets people disagree without forcing them to commit their time too much. I for instance don't want to explain why I'd select no, but since there was no option to just say "no" from the start, I'm put off from contributing at all if my only option is a statement that doesn't measure up to the other two.

This is not meant as a reprimand, it's just how we construct polls on the site to make sure they don't swing one way due to a limited scope. Please feel free to continue.
14 Dec 2017, 20:29 PM
#10
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 868 | Subs: 5

Get caches (scarvenge will be doctrinal in scarvenge doctrine)

I understand OKW want...
- Smoke grenades.
- Cheaper tanks.
- Caches.
- 6 man squads at obersoldaten durability at 200 manpower/squad cost.
- T0 Mortar
- T0 MG
- T0 King Tiger.
- Tanks that self-repair, cap flags, are inexpensive AND are the best.

The same way that Wehr Ostheer wants 6x men grenadier squads with 2x LMG42

Sure, that can be done, but you'll have to give up something in exchange.

Here, you want Caches. Fine.
But you'd have to give up like the Vet 5 thing.
And/or the prices would need to be increased further.

Remember OKW used to only have 75% from ressources, or something?
And this was adjusted to 100%?

When that happened, the price for everything was tweaked.


14 Dec 2017, 20:41 PM
#11
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

I don't think the lack of caches was ever meant to balance out Vet 4-5 but rather balance out the fact that OKW used to be able to manipulate their fuel and munitions income with Mechanized Building. Even then OKW has gotten along fine without Caches even since their income was standardized.

Removing Salvage isn't a great option because it's very useful for denying support weapons and it also gives you fuel for free. Even then, most of the OKW nerfs were either accompanied by an offsetting buff or were to things that were straight up overperforming. I don't think OKW needs caches just because some of it's more silly aspects are finally getting fixed. The fact is that OKW still has Vet 4-5 and gets extra bonuses... just not OP stuff like Vet 4 Obers shooting lasers and suppressing units. Throw in the fact that OKW still gets really good tanks and a non-doc heavy tank and do they *really* need fuel caches to rush those out?
14 Dec 2017, 21:16 PM
#12
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Dec 2017, 19:48 PMSwift

Being literate has nothing to do with this.

If you're presented with an option on the fly, are you going to want to give it much attention? The way the poll was set up originally made it so that to someone only casually interested in the thread could only vote "yes" to two options or vote "vague" and then have to wax lyrical about what their vague choice meant. Other is also not representative of everyone disagreeing, since other could mean no, or another idea about where to take the faction.

It's always good to include an option that lets people disagree without forcing them to commit their time too much. I for instance don't want to explain why I'd select no, but since there was no option to just say "no" from the start, I'm put off from contributing at all if my only option is a statement that doesn't measure up to the other two.

This is not meant as a reprimand, it's just how we construct polls on the site to make sure they don't swing one way due to a limited scope. Please feel free to continue.

Ill just add thats its an accepted fact in the field of statistics that people are less likely to give input (or select a certain option) if it is more difficult or takes more effort to do so.
14 Dec 2017, 21:27 PM
#13
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 728

Like explained multiple times in chagelog, vet 5 and 4 has been nerfed to put the faction veterancy on par with other factions vet 3.
Vet 5 squads like volks and falls, and obers and vehicles like jadgpanzer 4, king tiger and so on are getting nerfed.
Regardless of those changes being justified or not, DBP is factually levelling the scaling of units.

This implies that the lack of caches, which was a feature balancing the powerful veterancy isn't necessary anymore.




You get caches then you lose the ability to scavenge that simple
14 Dec 2017, 22:21 PM
#14
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 868 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Dec 2017, 21:27 PMRocket


You get caches then you lose the ability to scavenge that simple


======
+1 what he said above.
So need to pay LOTS LOTS LOTS for Caches.
- And lose the ability to gain tons of ressources for free (Scavenging)

Basically, asking for a nerf.
Since wehr/osteer can give you the caches.

enjoy caches for free, AND have Scavenge.

And instead, pay $$$$$ for caches, and lose FREE scavenge.

Sure, we can accept your offer to have OKW nerfed if you REALLY want to.
14 Dec 2017, 23:12 PM
#15
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



======
+1 what he said above.
So need to pay LOTS LOTS LOTS for Caches.
- And lose the ability to gain tons of ressources for free (Scavenging)

Basically, asking for a nerf.
Since wehr/osteer can give you the caches.

enjoy caches for free, AND have Scavenge.

And instead, pay $$$$$ for caches, and lose FREE scavenge.

Sure, we can accept your offer to have OKW nerfed if you REALLY want to.

This is pretty much BS, actual scarvenge is a joke, 5 fuel such a powercreep LUL.
14 Dec 2017, 23:13 PM
#16
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



======
+1 what he said above.
So need to pay LOTS LOTS LOTS for Caches.
- And lose the ability to gain tons of ressources for free (Scavenging)

Basically, asking for a nerf.
Since wehr/osteer can give you the caches.

enjoy caches for free, AND have Scavenge.

And instead, pay $$$$$ for caches, and lose FREE scavenge.

Sure, we can accept your offer to have OKW nerfed if you REALLY want to.
some one forgot that vet 4 5 are now just cosmetics
14 Dec 2017, 23:16 PM
#17
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Dec 2017, 21:27 PMRocket


You get caches then you lose the ability to scavenge that simple


Hope you haven't voted, what's the point of voting if you don't have any but a single freaking match as okw for fucks sake ?

That's the reason why this poll had to be EXCLUSIVELY about which kind of change, if any, should be made...
14 Dec 2017, 23:33 PM
#18
avatar of Ducati
Benefactor 115

Posts: 164

There are many facets to this discussion and where I sit is dependent on what game mode we are talking about.

In 1v1 I think this is a valid discussion.

In team games I wouldn't want OKW to get caches. In fact, i would prefer that they were removed from all factions and only have them accessible as features in particular commanders. Caches have too great of an effect on the pacing of team games, without effecting field presence in any meaningful way.
14 Dec 2017, 23:35 PM
#19
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Dec 2017, 23:33 PMDucati
There are many facets to this discussion and where I sit is dependent on what game mode we are talking about.

In 1v1 I think this is a valid discussion.

In team games I wouldn't want OKW to get caches. In fact, i would prefer that they were removed from all factions and only have them accessible as features in particular commanders. Caches have too great of an effect on the pacing of team games, without effecting field presence in any meaningful way.
orr they did like fbp and reduced all caches resources the higher the player are ( it was like +2 in 4 vs 4 , +3 3vs3 ,+4 2vs2 and normal in 1vs 1)
15 Dec 2017, 00:12 AM
#20
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

orr they did like fbp and reduced all caches resources the higher the player are ( it was like +2 in 4 vs 4 , +3 3vs3 ,+4 2vs2 and normal in 1vs 1)


Although one of the major reasons large teams games are considerably borked in CoH2 has to do with the available assets for map making.

CoH2 Montargis Region
https://www.coh2.org/file/14235/mr2.jpg

CoH1 Montargis Region
http://cohonlinegame.ru/images/content/maps/montargis_region.jpg

Look at the number of territory points. Look at how resources are distributed.

The CoH2 is in annihilation mode too, so the VPs are resource points on that one, and it doesn't show cutoff sectors. But the point is the lack of territory/resource point options completely restricts layouts in a way that really don't extend beyond a 2v2. And even that's stretching it. Even 1v1 maps are extremely limited in their potential designs.

All of this has completely prior to any faction or game match.
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