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russian armor

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5 Dec 2017, 22:02 PM
#1141
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



Wow, and I just thought that counter-attack cannot be even more useless :foreveralone:
it got hp buff
5 Dec 2017, 22:19 PM
#1142
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066



T34/85s have 800HP, which is equal to a panther in terms of HP. It outclasses any p4 variant simply because of that HP, also being cheaper than the OKW p4. Yes the OKW p4 has better armor, the 85 also has better pen, ontop of the better AI from the coaxial and hull mgs.


Agreed. Still, I don't find them overperforming. Do you?
5 Dec 2017, 22:45 PM
#1143
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4



Agreed. Still, I don't find them overperforming. Do you?


In comparison to the p4, yes. IIRC its 135 fuel? maybe 130, where the OKW p4 will soon be 140, but is generally worse because of the lower HP. Why do you agree with my points that state its overperforming for its price but then say it isn't overperforming?
5 Dec 2017, 23:22 PM
#1144
avatar of Fantomasas

Posts: 122



In comparison to the p4, yes. IIRC its 135 fuel? maybe 130, where the OKW p4 will soon be 140, but is generally worse because of the lower HP. Why do you agree with my points that state its overperforming for its price but then say it isn't overperforming?


The fuel difference is too small to matter: 10 fuel there vs 20 MP. You can argue that the smaller HP pool is offset by the extra frontal armor. The T34 85 production isn't as problematic as T34 76 because you have to lock in the commander which doesn't drop fuel. The balance doesn't matter if it is 5% more efficient than P4, small differences like that just don't matter in team games. Perhaps the tank could get nerfs for pop-cap or production-time to make it less spammy without affecting the combat stats.

The T85 should be a better tank just because it is locked behind the doctrine and T4. The tank has to have advantages over stock tanks. It is also the "elite" tank of Soviets, where you get better tanks from T4 from germans.
5 Dec 2017, 23:45 PM
#1145
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818



In comparison to the p4, yes. IIRC its 135 fuel? maybe 130, where the OKW p4 will soon be 140, but is generally worse because of the lower HP. Why do you agree with my points that state its overperforming for its price but then say it isn't overperforming?


The 85 is currently overshadowed by the 76 for its cost. I more often find myself going for t34/76's as you can get 3 76's for less fuel than 2 85s. You can also produce a 76 2 earlier than an 85 and their mgs are all the same, as well as the AOE profiles. You get 1920 over 1600 hp and 480 compared to 320 damage with about the same reload at 100 compared to 140 pen. Not that they aren't very good, but since they are comparable to other soviet units, i don't think it's appropriate to adjust their costs right now. I also think that the P4 has historically(ingame) not performed great vs armor with its low penetration so its more appropriate to look at the p4 than the 85s.

I think since both p4 variants are getting cheaper and the more cost effective 76 is getting a price increase, its fair to keep them the same. If they are used a ton and prove to be too strong in the near future then more changes can be looked at, but comparing it to 1 unit when there are dozens more it is in parity with doesn't seem appropriate.
6 Dec 2017, 00:09 AM
#1146
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

If they are used a ton and prove to be too strong in the near future then more changes can be looked at


I think it's in the best interest of the game to avoid this type of situation with any change.
6 Dec 2017, 03:36 AM
#1147
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4



The fuel difference is too small to matter: 10 fuel there vs 20 MP. You can argue that the smaller HP pool is offset by the extra frontal armor. The T34 85 production isn't as problematic as T34 76 because you have to lock in the commander which doesn't drop fuel. The balance doesn't matter if it is 5% more efficient than P4, small differences like that just don't matter in team games. Perhaps the tank could get nerfs for pop-cap or production-time to make it less spammy without affecting the combat stats.

The T85 should be a better tank just because it is locked behind the doctrine and T4. The tank has to have advantages over stock tanks. It is also the "elite" tank of Soviets, where you get better tanks from T4 from germans.


I said "since it was a team game patch" merely because it was. These fuel differences have a much larger impact in 1v1 mode. I could argue that pfussies shouldn't be nerfed because they're locked behind a doctrine as well.



The 85 is currently overshadowed by the 76 for its cost. I more often find myself going for t34/76's as you can get 3 76's for less fuel than 2 85s. You can also produce a 76 2 earlier than an 85 and their mgs are all the same, as well as the AOE profiles. You get 1920 over 1600 hp and 480 compared to 320 damage with about the same reload at 100 compared to 140 pen. Not that they aren't very good, but since they are comparable to other soviet units, i don't think it's appropriate to adjust their costs right now. I also think that the P4 has historically(ingame) not performed great vs armor with its low penetration so its more appropriate to look at the p4 than the 85s.

I think since both p4 variants are getting cheaper and the more cost effective 76 is getting a price increase, its fair to keep them the same. If they are used a ton and prove to be too strong in the near future then more changes can be looked at, but comparing it to 1 unit when there are dozens more it is in parity with doesn't seem appropriate.


Currently overshadowed by the 76 yes, but I feel that may change with the fuel price up in the new patch. I'm not saying nerf the 85s so long as we buff p4s to be comparable. I could compare the p4 to any other tank and determine which is too cost effective and which are not. The 85s and the easy 8s are just some of the biggest offenders. Looking to future patches for more nerfs/buffs isn't what you should be looking for currently IMO. This game is dying more or less, and any patch might be its last. We all thought patches were done when the FBP was canceled indefinatly. I'd rather try and fix what we can while we can.
6 Dec 2017, 05:08 AM
#1148
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

85s They Seem pretty good when i use them, not but are not overwhelming to beat and definately not game changing to use like they were as a callin. They were more effective and used more often in just about every patch prior to this one.

Subjectively to me they seem ok, Objectively its nebulose, I don't think that justifies changes.

Ez8s are good vs P4s and tigers, but not so good vs stugs, jp4s and panthers so same as the line above.

Outside of balance arguments, I don't think they are in the scope and I don't believe they can add them to the scope.
6 Dec 2017, 05:48 AM
#1149
avatar of aomsinzana

Posts: 284 | Subs: 1

1.7 is release but ...

STORM DOCTRINE STILL HAVE ONE FREE SLOT ABILITY !!!!!
6 Dec 2017, 06:29 AM
#1150
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 353

1.7 is release but ...

STORM DOCTRINE STILL HAVE ONE FREE SLOT ABILITY !!!!!


I will waiting until Final patch
6 Dec 2017, 07:04 AM
#1151
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



Locked in t4 now tho

was he talking about DBP ?
6 Dec 2017, 12:11 PM
#1152
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

If this patch is centered around teamgames why is there no T34/85 and easy 8 nerfs? Those units stats are way to good for their price. Same for IL-2 straffes. Certain IL-2 loiters can delete squads.


This is joke right ? e8 is decent tank, good for it cost but not good enough for axis lategame but yeah lets nerf it because earlygane Usf dominance lol i think its ok no one uses that doctrine anyway if u ask me e8 should have range 45 not 40 and costs 150 fuel
6 Dec 2017, 12:47 PM
#1153
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243



This is joke right ? e8 is decent tank, good for it cost but not good enough for axis lategame but yeah lets nerf it because earlygane Usf dominance lol i think its ok no one uses that doctrine anyway if u ask me e8 should have range 45 not 40 and costs 150 fuel


E8 is the best medium tank...its abilitys, firepower, fast speed, armor, hp, reload time, strong vs every target, self repair, smoke etc...its nearly too cheap for its performanche.

a horde of 3-4 e8 can easily destroy some targets and can fast retreat and drive around the map to attack at a other spot...
6 Dec 2017, 13:06 PM
#1154
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



This is joke right ? e8 is decent tank, good for it cost but not good enough for axis lategame but yeah lets nerf it because earlygane Usf dominance lol i think its ok no one uses that doctrine anyway if u ask me e8 should have range 45 not 40 and costs 150 fuel


So much autism in this post...
6 Dec 2017, 13:12 PM
#1155
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

Aaaand Leig Cost further decreased from 300 to 270 ? Total bullshit. Usf howitzer still not touched and now sniping leig costs like mortar with extra smoke and napalm if needed. Okw leigfest is coming back
6 Dec 2017, 13:23 PM
#1156
avatar of Swift

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1

A reminder that this thread is not a good place to complain and moan. Please give feedback but don't be surprised if you get something invissed when it's there to just say "OMG dat stoopid".

I have left things as they are for now, but I don't have much more patience after this point.
6 Dec 2017, 13:24 PM
#1157
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

Aaaand Leig Cost further decreased from 300 to 270 ? Total bullshit. Usf howitzer still not touched and now sniping leig costs like mortar with extra smoke and napalm if needed. Okw leigfest is coming back


maybe you look to its new perfomanche..and the range...before you blame the ISG for its cheap price.

And at least...everybody would agree that OKW need smoke... a good player can base lock a OKW enemy with some mgs in the early game on many maps..
6 Dec 2017, 16:19 PM
#1158
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066



In comparison to the p4, yes. IIRC its 135 fuel? maybe 130, where the OKW p4 will soon be 140, but is generally worse because of the lower HP. Why do you agree with my points that state its overperforming for its price but then say it isn't overperforming?


Yeah I see what you mean. The problem is, in a team game scenario, I don't find it (T34-85) overperforming. In a 1v1 vacuum, I do find both of them (T34-85 and EZ8) overperforming, especially considering their cost. For example, in a 1v1 I find the OKW p4 to be quite capable, even considering its cost. However, in a team game, I just find it lackluster. I find the Ostheer P4 lackluster in all game modes lol.

The same goes for the T34-76. In a 1v1 and 2v2 I find it pretty uselsess, apart from the occasional ram. In teamgames, they can be quite unbalanced as you spam them so hard that you can just overwhelm anything lol. The same goes for Panthers. Not really worth it in 1v1, but really really good and overwhelming in a 2v2 and up.

Does that clear it up a bit? I mean I agree with you, but also sort of disagree xd.
6 Dec 2017, 16:46 PM
#1159
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4



Yeah I see what you mean. The problem is, in a team game scenario, I don't find it (T34-85) overperforming. In a 1v1 vacuum, I do find both of them (T34-85 and EZ8) overperforming, especially considering their cost. For example, in a 1v1 I find the OKW p4 to be quite capable, even considering its cost. However, in a team game, I just find it lackluster. I find the Ostheer P4 lackluster in all game modes lol.

The same goes for the T34-76. In a 1v1 and 2v2 I find it pretty uselsess, apart from the occasional ram. In teamgames, they can be quite unbalanced as you spam them so hard that you can just overwhelm anything lol. The same goes for Panthers. Not really worth it in 1v1, but really really good and overwhelming in a 2v2 and up.

Does that clear it up a bit? I mean I agree with you, but also sort of disagree xd.


all good. balancing different modes with the same stats and resources. :facepalm:
6 Dec 2017, 17:13 PM
#1160
avatar of Zansibar

Posts: 158 | Subs: 2

The Leig is 270 MP but the Pack Howitzer is 380 MP in the 1.7 test version, this makes no sense. The Pack Howitzer must get a price decrease.

Also the ost Panzer IV is better than M4A3 (76) at a lower cost, this makes no sense either.

Buff the M4A3 (76) performance and give it more pen, equally that of the E8.
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