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Emplacement Pack-Up Poll (mortar pit = 50MP)

Is 50 Manpower for the mortar-pity too cheap
Option Distribution Votes
48%
28%
24%
Total votes: 25
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
10 Jul 2017, 15:28 PM
#1
avatar of MarioSilver

Posts: 62

Emplacement Pack-Up
The goal of pack up is to allow British players to potentially relocate parts of their assets elsewhere, or when it is no longer possible to maintain static presence on the field.

- Sappers can now pack-up emplacements for a 75% return in resources invested in them
- The duration of pack-up time is 20 seconds
- During pack-up the emplacement cannot attack, and takes increased damage (3x)
- Attack restriction penalties persist for 6 seconds if pack-up is cancelled
- The resource yield also counts the 2-mortar upgrade, but doesn’t count Advanced Emplacement Regiment upgrades (i.e., no munitions refund)



I want some opinion on the new Pack-up ability, which in practice makes emplacements %75 cheaper. Would you oppose this if relic were to integrate this change into the live game?


I personally find it crazy. There is zero risk invloved, aside from the pack-up animation. Imagine if OKW could do that with their truck!
10 Jul 2017, 16:06 PM
#2
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

- During pack-up the emplacement cannot attack, and takes increased damage (3x)

This says it all. If you emplacement is already under fire, there´s no way to pack it up.

Even if you fail an attack to kill the mortar pit and it´s still alive with a sliver of health, then any ligh artillery should destroy it within 20 seconds, because it will deal triple the normal damage to the mortar pit
10 Jul 2017, 16:45 PM
#3
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

This is a mod, it isn´t an official balance patch or mod or whatever. Take your cool aid.
10 Jul 2017, 16:55 PM
#4
avatar of MarioSilver

Posts: 62

This is a mod, it isn´t an official balance patch or mod or whatever. Take your cool aid.


Pay more attention kinder;


Would you oppose this if relic were to integrate this change into the live game?



- During pack-up the emplacement cannot attack, and takes increased damage (3x)

This says it all. If you emplacement is already under fire, there´s no way to pack it up.


Why is such an ability even necessary? You build the building, use it as much as you can and once you realize there is a leFH you just unpack it during safe periods and take your money back. WUT
10 Jul 2017, 16:59 PM
#5
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

It's fine.

1-A RE or doctrinal Tommy has to built it first. That's time wasted if you need to relocate it.

2-Vulnerable during pack up.

3-Mortar pit is no longer as automatically annoying as before.

4-You lose veterancy.

Something that could be added is: emplacements needs to be at full health, in order for sappers to be able to START to pack up (doesn't matter if they take damage during deconstruction) if it looks like the option is too strong.
10 Jul 2017, 20:59 PM
#6
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3141 | Subs: 2

It would be easier if the mortar pit was replaced with a normal mortar and the pit was made into a garrisonable emplacement...

Plus one less emplacement to balance.
10 Jul 2017, 22:15 PM
#7
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

So one can relocate sim city? Naw, no matter how you put this this is a buff to emplacements. I particularly a sim city style user.

Emplacements needs to be removed from the game as a whole.

10 Jul 2017, 23:33 PM
#8
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

It would be easier if the mortar pit was replaced with a normal mortar and the pit was made into a garrisonable emplacement...

Plus one less emplacement to balance.


In the spirit of testing things and trying new things, I find this to be a preferable option to an emplacement version of withdraw & refit.
10 Jul 2017, 23:49 PM
#9
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13



In the spirit of testing things and trying new things, I find this to be a preferable option to an emplacement version of withdraw & refit.


Unfortunately we have no 3inch mortar model that can be made mobile at the moment.

Of course one could easily use other mortars.
11 Jul 2017, 03:03 AM
#10
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 393




I want some opinion on the new Pack-up ability, which in practice makes emplacements %75 cheaper. Would you oppose this if relic were to integrate this change into the live game?


I personally find it crazy. There is zero risk involved, aside from the pack-up animation. Imagine if OKW could do that with their truck!

Keep in mind that destroying the emplacements outright will force the UKF player to pay full price again. Not to mention the emplacements that get broke down cannot move, they cannot retain Veterancy and are far more fragile than the live versions.
11 Jul 2017, 05:09 AM
#11
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

I think that it's a bit... clickbait? alarmist? To state that pack up makes mortar pit cost 50 mp. And if emplacements were literally free with teching like okw trucks, then sure, let okw trucks pack up and move.
11 Jul 2017, 09:14 AM
#12
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1740



Unfortunately we have no 3inch mortar model that can be made mobile at the moment.

Of course one could easily use other mortars.


Honestly, if Obersoldaten die there is like a 50% chance that they will die standing in the "idle position" ( with their arms to the sides)...
So I don't think that anyone would complain if a mortar model is not the right one or I will personally tell this person to shut up.
11 Jul 2017, 09:19 AM
#13
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3141 | Subs: 2



Unfortunately we have no 3inch mortar model that can be made mobile at the moment.

Of course one could easily use other mortars.


You do realize that what the USF have in game is essentially an M2 60mm mortar, right? You're just using the M1 81mm because that's the only mortar that has proper animations unlike the M1919A4 and M2 60mm mortar, both models of which could be found in the editor.

Planet Smasher did the same and used the M1 81mm mortar model for the 3-inch, which is already in game, problem is it's glued to the mortar pit and has no separate animations for carrying, unpacking and packing.
11 Jul 2017, 12:07 PM
#14
avatar of MarioSilver

Posts: 62

If you suspect an OKW zeroing artillery nuke consider packing up and selling for scraps.


If you guys don't find anything wrong with this reasoning then you probably have no idea about balance and RTS games in general.


Build your pit, wipe out as many grens as possible, and then once you feel slightly threatened, pack up your pit and spend the manpower on your next comet.


That is the best example of "I want to have my cake and eat it too"
12 Jul 2017, 00:21 AM
#15
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742



Unfortunately we have no 3inch mortar model that can be made mobile at the moment.

Of course one could easily use other mortars.


TBH I feel like that should be the least of your concerns.

I know I'm just making an assumption here, but I'll bet than unless its got wheels and doesn't decrew at 1 man or is in a halftrack, the vast majority of players won't notice let alone care.
12 Jul 2017, 04:25 AM
#16
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I wouldnt be opposed to packing up (mostly for popcap reasons), but returned resourses is not a good direction imo. Emplacments dont bleed, so getting resourses back makes them a free grinder. Build a pit, kill a few models, pack it up, worst case you break even, best case you bled the enemy a good chunk AND dictated their build order towards a cancer fighting build which now doesnt matter because you have mobilized your army and they are stuck with their chemo.

Writing this i have convinced myself that packup at all is probably a bad thing.... It just gives too much forgiveness and allows emplacment creep...
12 Jul 2017, 06:08 AM
#17
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

I wouldnt be opposed to packing up (mostly for popcap reasons), but returned resourses is not a good direction imo. Emplacments dont bleed, so getting resourses back makes them a free grinder. Build a pit, kill a few models, pack it up, worst case you break even, best case you bled the enemy a good chunk AND dictated their build order towards a cancer fighting build which now doesnt matter because you have mobilized your army and they are stuck with their chemo.

Writing this i have convinced myself that packup at all is probably a bad thing.... It just gives too much forgiveness and allows emplacment creep...

Even though it isn't quite the same thing, usf had that refit and refuel thing in mechanized commander. You do make a good point though.

I still just think that brits should get a normal damn mortar.
12 Jul 2017, 07:10 AM
#18
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279


Even though it isn't quite the same thing, usf had that refit and refuel thing in mechanized commander. You do make a good point though.

I still just think that brits should get a normal damn mortar.


Vehicles however come much later and dont have the impact/forgiveness of emplacments and are less durable (a fancy 400mp mortar pit can survive a sturmtiger rocket WITHOUT bracing and then be repaired fully before the sturm could shoot it again)

I too would like to see a mobile mortar...
The trench could even make the mortar a wanna be mortar pit (improved rof and/range when in the trench? Garrisoned mortars now contribute to arty flare barrages? There are options)
nee
12 Jul 2017, 07:33 AM
#19
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

UKF having mortar and a more durable trench would probably replace mortar pit without the need to make some fancy salvage ability from scratch.
The trench could just be regular Ostheer one and features higher stats, and greatly bolsters an otherwise uninspired mortar unit once garrisoned.
It also brings in tactical play whereas you have to build the trench by the time your mortars get there, and until then they act like gimped 60mms. HMGs and infantry sections themselves would also benefit from using the trench too.
For balance, trenches need sappers and take a while to build, and sandbags are removed from UKF.
12 Jul 2017, 07:56 AM
#20
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3141 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jul 2017, 07:33 AMnee
UKF having mortar and a more durable trench would probably replace mortar pit without the need to make some fancy salvage ability from scratch.
The trench could just be regular Ostheer one and features higher stats, and greatly bolsters an otherwise uninspired mortar unit once garrisoned.
It also brings in tactical play whereas you have to build the trench by the time your mortars get there, and until then they act like gimped 60mms. HMGs and infantry sections themselves would also benefit from using the trench too.
For balance, trenches need sappers and take a while to build, and sandbags are removed from UKF.


Just 2 things here. I don't think that Relic are about to agree with removing the asset in which time and effort has been put {the pit} and the other thing being that until trenches could be built anywhere and everywhere the Infantry Sections will need their sandbags, or their debuff removes the cover requirement and the garrisoned requirement is more like the Vickers vet 1 boost than a debuff.
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