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Not a single TD for ostheer

5 Jul 2017, 16:58 PM
#1
avatar of Leo251

Posts: 311

One question for Relic.
With all of the Tank Destroyers germans have at their disposal during WW2, why you decided to put not a single one as a stock unit for OST?
Ost is the only factions without TD. Instead of that, you decided to simulate an assault gun (Stug) as a TD. It is very wierd.


5 Jul 2017, 17:25 PM
#2
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

Is this a stealth request to give Wehrmacht another Wunderwaffen?
5 Jul 2017, 17:42 PM
#3
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

Is this a stealth request to give Wehrmacht another Wunderwaffen?


Another...? Which Wunderwaffe do you believe they already have? Tiger, lol?


Ele is about the only thing you could call Wunderwaffe but it's extremely late, expensive and needs a ton of support, which is usually already wiped by katys, mattress, WunderBritPits and so on and so forth.


Or were you talking about the WunderStug?
5 Jul 2017, 17:44 PM
#4
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

The unit changed from a Assault gun to TD in the following patch.

June 23rd Update:
Wehrmacht:


Stug G
We found the Stug G was missing a clear identity leading it to be a unit that was much underused. The changes we made will give the Stug G a role of a light tank destroyer.

Health increased from 400 to 560
Penetration increased from 110/120/130 to 170 / 185 / 200
AOE Penetration to match other tank destroyers profiles
Scatter Max to 8
Radius reduced from 1.5 to 0.5
Reaction Radius reduced to 0.5
Distances adjusted to match other tank destroyer profiles
Cost increased from 230/80 to 280/90

Actually this change was great one.

In real life the lines between assault guns (vehicles) (Sturmgeschütz) and tank hunters (vehicles)(Panzerjäger) got blared when the low velocity guns that could fire both direct and indirect fire where replaced by high velocity guns dual purpose guns.

Actually tank hunter units where equipped with Stug -G III vehicles.

Assault guns where used by "Sturmartillerie" units.
5 Jul 2017, 19:28 PM
#5
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jul 2017, 17:44 PMVipper
The unit changed from a Assault gun to TD in the following patch.

June 23rd Update:
Wehrmacht:


Stug G
We found the Stug G was missing a clear identity leading it to be a unit that was much underused. The changes we made will give the Stug G a role of a light tank destroyer.

Health increased from 400 to 560
Penetration increased from 110/120/130 to 170 / 185 / 200
AOE Penetration to match other tank destroyers profiles
Scatter Max to 8
Radius reduced from 1.5 to 0.5
Reaction Radius reduced to 0.5
Distances adjusted to match other tank destroyer profiles
Cost increased from 230/80 to 280/90

Actually this change was great one.

In real life the lines between assault guns (vehicles) (Sturmgeschütz) and tank hunters (vehicles)(Panzerjäger) got blared when the low velocity guns that could fire both direct and indirect fire where replaced by high velocity guns dual purpose guns.

Actually tank hunter units where equipped with Stug -G III vehicles.

Assault guns where used by "Sturmartillerie" units.

yea i remember this one, uber buff with a tiny cost increase. on top of this change allies had tons of nerfs as always
5 Jul 2017, 22:04 PM
#6
avatar of Garrett

Posts: 309 | Subs: 1


yea i remember this one, uber buff with a tiny cost increase. on top of this change allies had tons of nerfs as always


Like the Su76 never got a similar buff, which made spamming it extremely viable...
5 Jul 2017, 22:08 PM
#7
avatar of tightrope
Senior Caster Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29

You realise that Ost has the elefant which is in your picture right?
5 Jul 2017, 22:39 PM
#8
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

You realise that Ost has the elefant which is in your picture right?
The Elefant sucks versus medium tanks which make up almost the whole Allied tank force in the game (except the occasional Pershing). It is easily swarmed. Even when well supported a horde of mediums can take down the Elefant and leave under Pak fire. And it is planned to make it suck even more versus medium tanks with a damage reduction, taking it from hardly useful and easily flanked to an insult to any Ostheer player.
5 Jul 2017, 23:17 PM
#9
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3143 | Subs: 2

I agree that new doctrines with either Hetzers or Jagdpanthers sounds nice.

I'd also love to see the a Nashorn and Hummel as doctrinal tanks for the OKW but I highly doubt it sadly.
5 Jul 2017, 23:37 PM
#10
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

They're all unturreted armored vehicles. While there were meaningful differences and attributes to each of the sixteen examples provided, virtually none of them are meaningful in CoH.

Also, how are there no Marders.
6 Jul 2017, 00:16 AM
#11
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

The Elefant sucks versus medium tanks which make up almost the whole Allied tank force in the game (except the occasional Pershing). It is easily swarmed. Even when well supported a horde of mediums can take down the Elefant and leave under Pak fire. And it is planned to make it suck even more versus medium tanks with a damage reduction, taking it from hardly useful and easily flanked to an insult to any Ostheer player.


The fact it can be countered doesn't make it bad, in fact right now the Elephant is too good at killing medium tanks that should be it's counter, you just need to find the right spot to camp and spot for it.
6 Jul 2017, 01:08 AM
#12
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

One could also consider the fact that Elefants are a big fat nothing against infantry and that infantry AT all deal deflection damage and are entirely ubiquitous in this game...
6 Jul 2017, 01:39 AM
#13
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

By TD do you mean something that outranges tanks and has good AP? Cause if that is the cause you have the panther and Stug.

Or do you mean a 60 range TD that can only deal with tanks? Cause they don't have that. We don't have to mirror every unit.
6 Jul 2017, 08:27 AM
#14
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217



The fact it can be countered doesn't make it bad, in fact right now the Elephant is too good at killing medium tanks that should be it's counter, you just need to find the right spot to camp and spot for it.
So you consider the Elefant good because:

- It can't kill infantry.
- It is supposed to be countered by medium tanks.

--> Thus it is supposed to be countered by almost all units in the game.

This doesn't make sense.
6 Jul 2017, 08:58 AM
#15
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Ostheer has stug, panther, ele, tiger pak and double schreck squad.

They have one of best tools in game to counter any vehicle play. Just use combined arms and you'll be fine.

And if you ever struggle with Ostheer, then visit the State Office and upload a replay there. We will review it for you, so you can easily realise what mistakes you've been doing all time long ;)

TLDR: None faction should have 1 click "wunderwaffe" wonders :P
6 Jul 2017, 10:46 AM
#16
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Ostheer has stug, panther, ele, tiger pak and double schreck squad.

...

Think OP is commenting from a historic point of view and not from in game ways to deal with tanks.

But Stug actually was used from tank hunter units as a TD.
6 Jul 2017, 17:46 PM
#17
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

So you consider the Elefant good because:

- It can't kill infantry.
- It is supposed to be countered by medium tanks.

--> Thus it is supposed to be countered by almost all units in the game.

This doesn't make sense.


If you want to argue like that, look at the current M36 Jackson TD, which can't kill infantry and will very often lose to what it's supposed to counter.
If you save all your resources for an Elephant that you can't support then it's on your when it gets destroyed, but in 2vs2 and above this unit is a nightmare to deal with in certain maps because even if it doesn't kill it will send units back for repairs for fear of losing them, pair this up with Prokw's Volksgrenadiers and some Pak guns you see where I'm coming from.
Only Rocket Artillery can engage this kind of and it's pretty much the meta in 2vs2.
nee
6 Jul 2017, 18:24 PM
#18
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jul 2017, 16:58 PMLeo251
One question for Relic.
With all of the Tank Destroyers germans have at their disposal during WW2, why you decided to put not a single one as a stock unit for OST?
Ost is the only factions without TD. Instead of that, you decided to simulate an assault gun (Stug) as a TD. It is very wierd.
What's weird is that you ask a loaded question like Ostheer not having a "stock unit" for the TD role (a role you don't define, considering current units), but then immediately make the other assumption that they are without TDs entirely in the next sentence.

Showing a picture of unknown origins (and clearly ripped from a publication) hardly helps, I don't know why people do it. Are you suggesting those are the only tank destroyers that Relic can choose from?

Anyways the answer is game design.

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jul 2017, 10:46 AMVipper

Think OP is commenting from a historic point of view and not from in game ways to deal with tanks.

But Stug actually was used from tank hunter units as a TD.
Naw OP is basically saying "I want these units to be stock in the game for Ostheer", and of course ignoring the three facts that Ostheer has good anti-tank, OKW has some units in the picture, and what's considered weird is often not someone else is doing something wrong.
6 Jul 2017, 19:16 PM
#19
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



Another...? Which Wunderwaffe do you believe they already have? Tiger, lol?


Ele is about the only thing you could call Wunderwaffe but it's extremely late, expensive and needs a ton of support, which is usually already wiped by katys, mattress, WunderBritPits and so on and so forth.


Or were you talking about the WunderStug?

They have a wunderwaffe called okw. Also, in its current stug might as well be wunderwaffe for 90 fuel.
10 Jul 2017, 09:26 AM
#20
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

OP is right...ost have not one single TD with the range from other TD. Except the commanders with elephant. exspacily brits can snipe very easy tanks from ost.
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