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russian armor

sturm pio long range dmg

8 May 2017, 22:35 PM
#1
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 477

i think sturms shouldnt be able to do the dmg they do at long range sometimes they can beat a engi or rear ech at long range . or do a real good amount of dmg. no other smg troop can do dmg at medium range
8 May 2017, 22:49 PM
#2
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

This is too vague. SP's have pretty miserable long range DPS, but I guess compared to low vet RE's and Engi they might be able to beat them. It really depends on a number of important factors. Keep in mind that SP cost approximately twice as much as those other units.
8 May 2017, 22:54 PM
#3
avatar of Chocoboknight88

Posts: 388

Indeed. As intimidating as they are, you can't ignore their price. They are effectively mainline infantry of the close-mid range variety and their Engineer status should probably be ignored.
8 May 2017, 23:41 PM
#4
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 477

i agree we cant ignore how much they cost and its fine. we also cant ignore they are free to start with not like u had to spend anything on it... if it didnt do long range shave dmg i wont mind. medium is fine but not long range. sometimes SP get a few shots of from far on a rear before the rear gets a hit. it just feels wrong smgs doing decent from far vs weaker starting unit. makes them not have to run close up and stay far in cover if its a 1v1. idk is it just me?
8 May 2017, 23:41 PM
#5
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 477

shocks, assgren, assengs dont do it. why does SP
8 May 2017, 23:51 PM
#6
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

shocks, assgren, assengs dont do it. why does SP


SMGs<Assault Rifles
9 May 2017, 02:45 AM
#7
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3223 | Subs: 1

Shocks: PPSH
Assualt grenadiers: MP40
Assualt engineers: I don't know but it may be a grease gun.
Try comparing Sturmpioneers to Panzergrenadiers. Both 4 men, both 4 StGs and Pgrens do decent long range damage. They won't be winning against tommy squads that are built to do long range damage, but they'll contribute to a fight even at long range.
9 May 2017, 03:04 AM
#8
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 953 | Subs: 1

shocks, assgren, assengs dont do it. why does SP


+500
9 May 2017, 04:58 AM
#9
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2180 | Subs: 4

Because it's an assault rifle... not an smg. And it still has crap damage at long range.

The squad does a whopping total of 1 extra dps than a rear echelon squad at max range.

The STGs on Panzergrenadiers are intended to be a medium range weapon. This is intended to offset the 4 man squads, who will die pretty fast at close range. They still shred everything close, but it's not as efficient when you factor in the enemy dps. Sturmpios are basically the same but with worse mid range dps.
9 May 2017, 06:03 AM
#10
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

i agree we cant ignore how much they cost and its fine. we also cant ignore they are free to start with not like u had to spend anything on it... if it didnt do long range shave dmg i wont mind. medium is fine but not long range. sometimes SP get a few shots of from far on a rear before the rear gets a hit. it just feels wrong smgs doing decent from far vs weaker starting unit. makes them not have to run close up and stay far in cover if its a 1v1. idk is it just me?


They arnt free, each faction has the same starting mp minus the cost of their first unit iirc
9 May 2017, 06:33 AM
#11
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 665

Shocks: PPSH
Assualt grenadiers: MP40
Assualt engineers: I don't know but it may be a grease gun.
Try comparing Sturmpioneers to Panzergrenadiers. Both 4 men, both 4 StGs and Pgrens do decent long range damage. They won't be winning against tommy squads that are built to do long range damage, but they'll contribute to a fight even at long range.


Shocks have a 6 man squad smoke and 1.5 armour. Ag's have sprint. And combat engineers are more of an utility unit with access to demo's and flamethrowers.

PG"s or SP's out of cover are just dead.
9 May 2017, 12:30 PM
#12
avatar of karskimies

Posts: 67

This topic again :D
9 May 2017, 13:06 PM
#13
avatar of LimaOscarMike

Posts: 445

just pretend that engineer and non upgrade RE are some what like major

engineer are effective in combat as much as conscript at short range ,but they can't since getting close to automatic weapon unit is dead sentence for engineer except those unit are pinned

i've used to think that all builder are rock paper shotgun to each other but since engineer also can't getting close to pioneer either but gladly they dont have medium range DPS that much. To consider Strumpioneer by cost i'd think they exactly mainline infantry but the problem where they usually get to key building first i'd think that was map design issue.
9 May 2017, 15:28 PM
#14
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6414 | Subs: 1

The answer to OP question can be found in the patch notes:


"Small Arms Weapon Profiles
The goal is to improve tactics by better defining unit roles; thereby, increasing the importance of unit positioning relative to cover. A weapon profile defines the distribution of damage over distance. Previously, the profiles were generally flat and did not fully characterize the strengths and weaknesses of a squad. Now, a Pioneer squad with a MP40 submachine gun has a very high damage output at close range but a substantially lower damage output at max range. The distribution of damage is no longer blended between ranges; this combined with the increased weapon lethality should reduce the tendency to rush infantry at one another.

Keep in mind the weapon profiles represent the damage output of only a handful of units in live. Each profile will see an increase or decrease in damage output depending on the squad’s value. For example, a 100 manpower pioneer squad might do less close range damage than a 300 manpower Grenadier squad despite the pioneer MP40 submachine gun being a close range weapon. Hence, the value of a unit scales the weapon profile accordingly."

Basically in an ideal situation the type of weapon profile would set determine the shape of the curve and the value of the unit the level of DPS (and/or area).
9 May 2017, 15:59 PM
#15
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post9 May 2017, 04:58 AMTobis
Because it's an assault rifle... not an smg. And it still has crap damage at long range.

The squad does a whopping total of 1 extra dps than a rear echelon squad at max range.

The STGs on Panzergrenadiers are intended to be a medium range weapon. This is intended to offset the 4 man squads, who will die pretty fast at close range. They still shred everything close, but it's not as efficient when you factor in the enemy dps. Sturmpios are basically the same but with worse mid range dps.


Always have to remember that "max range" is the absolute edge of units sight. The vast majority of what people think is long range is actually mid to close range. Very little combat takes place with infantry shooting across an entire screen length.

Hell on many maps it is hard to even get units in sight of each other without being close range.
9 May 2017, 16:36 PM
#16
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1495 | Subs: 3

Stormpioneers rush are absolutely disbalanced, especially against the Soviets, while you are forced to build the T1 / T2 pioneers sitting in a building near your base. Stormpioneers must start with rifles and improve to STG. Or they should not improve at all to STG because FolkGrenadiers have STG. Of course with a price reduction
9 May 2017, 16:51 PM
#17
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1279 | Subs: 2

Just make them cost 400 MP again!
9 May 2017, 19:38 PM
#18
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1251

I wouldn't say its the Sturmpio stats themselves but the weapon for the STG has a rather modest drop off leading it to preform rather decent at mid to long range. OFC brit riles will counter but the M1 Garand, m1, SVT, and mozen rly dont work all the well and require you to get close enough to be effective.

Switching the STG to an upgrade or even maybe a vet bonus (like vet 2 they get STG upgrade) might be a better idea, along with those changes a slight cost decrease might help us scale their utility and would help balance out their effectiveness early game.


9 May 2017, 19:45 PM
#19
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

Foced


Look, you arnt forced into anything, if you want early map control, conspam, otherwise you can't eat your cake and have it too.
9 May 2017, 20:18 PM
#20
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2180 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post9 May 2017, 19:38 PMMittens
I wouldn't say its the Sturmpio stats themselves but the weapon for the STG has a rather modest drop off leading it to preform rather decent at mid to long range. OFC brit riles will counter but the M1 Garand, m1, SVT, and mozen rly dont work all the well and require you to get close enough to be effective.

Every single one of those weapons would perform better by keeping them at long range. They all beat the stg at ranges greater than 25, so no you shouldn't try to get closer to be more effective. Sturms are probably going to try to advance on you anyways, so stay as far away as possible. Of course it gets more complicated when different squad types show up, but that's the benefit of combined arms.
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