There is too little counterplay for Soviet demo charges when playing as OKW. The sturmpioneer is too expensive to be an effective counter.
Either OKW should be granted a more viable mine detection unit, or the maximum damage of the demo charge should be greatly reduced. Or perhaps a subtle audio warning could be implemented.
As it stands now, it seems somewhat absurd to commit 600+ manpower just to be able to capture territory at more than one place in the map at the time without instantly losing a squad to a 90 munition tier 0 ability.
Thoughts?
OKW Minesweepers vs Demo Charges.
2 Jan 2017, 03:04 AM
#1
Posts: 15
2 Jan 2017, 04:06 AM
#2
1 Posts: 453
Prepare yourself for the Allied Fanboys incoming saying, "OH! there's nothing wrong with Allies having the sole ability to plant click bait TNT where they want - "Cue the fat hamburger going into they're slimy mouth."
2 Jan 2017, 04:49 AM
#3
Posts: 875 | Subs: 6
Demolition Charges ironically encourage blobbing; the constant threat of instantly losing a full squad means it’s never safe to send a lone squad out to cap against Soviets without the safety of being escorted by a minesweeper. Instead, players can be forced to blob cap only around their minesweeper, especially in the late game when the loss of vetted squads is so punishing. Demo Charges only counter blobs if your opponent is foolish enough to neglect sweepers.
To make demos properly fill their role of countering blobs and destroying buildings instead of just being a super mine placed on points to wipe individual squads, I would set the maximum models damaged per squad to 3, (like how mines have 2) but then give them a massive AOE pin. This way they won't wipe individual squads out in the open, but they will still do lots of damage to blobs and force retreats by pinning. An individual squad will also get wiped if they are in a house, since the demo will blow it up and collapse the squad inside.
To make demos properly fill their role of countering blobs and destroying buildings instead of just being a super mine placed on points to wipe individual squads, I would set the maximum models damaged per squad to 3, (like how mines have 2) but then give them a massive AOE pin. This way they won't wipe individual squads out in the open, but they will still do lots of damage to blobs and force retreats by pinning. An individual squad will also get wiped if they are in a house, since the demo will blow it up and collapse the squad inside.
2 Jan 2017, 05:39 AM
#4
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Prepare yourself for the Allied Fanboys incoming saying, "OH! there's nothing wrong with Allies having the sole ability to plant click bait TNT where they want - "Cue the fat hamburger going into they're slimy mouth."
Prepare yourself for the Axis fanboys incoming saying, OH! here comes the Allied fanboys...
4 years of this back n forth arguments.
Brainstorming ideas:
1- Reduce cost to 80, remove invisibility but only targetable with minesweepers (small arms). AoE still works. Minefield treatment.
2- Reduce cost to 50, can only be placed on constructible objects (wire, tanktraps, sandbag...) and buildings.
This are the ones which can be implemented. For other concepts:
3- A CE/Commando/AssEngi must be nearby in order to be able to explode it
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
2 Jan 2017, 06:45 AM
#5
Posts: 5
why not build a volks squad to cap suspicious points
2 Jan 2017, 07:06 AM
#6
Posts: 1740
The single thing wrong with demos is that it can be blown up even if it is detected.
You can't defuse a demo as Axis without shooting it which takes ages on range for Sturmpioneers / Pioneers. If you try to defuse it with the minesweeper, your squad is gone if the enemy is not asleep.
Simply disable the activation until the minesweeper is gone again just like usual mines don't blow up in a specific timeframe (when they are visible).
You can't defuse a demo as Axis without shooting it which takes ages on range for Sturmpioneers / Pioneers. If you try to defuse it with the minesweeper, your squad is gone if the enemy is not asleep.
Simply disable the activation until the minesweeper is gone again just like usual mines don't blow up in a specific timeframe (when they are visible).
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
2 Jan 2017, 08:08 AM
#7
Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17
Another option is to give demo charges a randomized explosion. That is to say, triggering the demo spawns (say) 4-5 explosion sources within the same 8-yard radius.
The goal of this change is that you can no longer predict whether triggering the demo will wipe a squad that's standing right on top of it, yet the demo charge will cause massive casualties to an enemy blob.
Something needs to be done with Demos at somepoint.
The goal of this change is that you can no longer predict whether triggering the demo will wipe a squad that's standing right on top of it, yet the demo charge will cause massive casualties to an enemy blob.
Something needs to be done with Demos at somepoint.
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions
Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
2 Jan 2017, 09:07 AM
#8
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
Another option is to give demo charges a randomized explosion. That is to say, triggering the demo spawns (say) 4-5 explosion sources within the same 8-yard radius.
The goal of this change is that you can no longer predict whether triggering the demo will wipe a squad that's standing right on top of it, yet the demo charge will cause massive casualties to an enemy blob.
Something needs to be done with Demos at somepoint.
Can you just make them so they wipe only max_squad_members - 1 member ? Something similar what was done to mines.
By this you will still be punished by capping with weakened squads or blobing.
Or just make them as booby trap copypasta from OKW, they plac it on strategic point and it turns into booby trap. Make them also deployable on buildings and bridges, thats it
2 Jan 2017, 09:18 AM
#9
2 
Posts: 1108
give them a 3 second timer
 | Playercard of MoerserKarL | |||||||||||||||||||
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2 Jan 2017, 09:24 AM
#10
Posts: 3600 | Subs: 1
give them a 3 second timer
This, so it become something a bit more skillful
2 Jan 2017, 10:22 AM
#11
Posts: 15
I'm enjoying a lot of these suggestions. I'm glad that many players seem to be in agreement that demo charges could use some sort of change.
I especially like the idea of turning it into a massive aoe suppression tool.
I especially like the idea of turning it into a massive aoe suppression tool.
2 Jan 2017, 10:46 AM
#12
Posts: 484
What about limiting demo charges to being placed on other objects? Demo's seem fine to me when used to boobytrap a building, destroy a bridge, or clear a shotblocker, and the like, but large explosives just laying around in fields always strikes as rather odd.
“Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.”
― Oscar Wilde
― Oscar Wilde
2 Jan 2017, 10:46 AM
#13
Posts: 3143 | Subs: 2
Another option is to give demo charges a randomized explosion. That is to say, triggering the demo spawns (say) 4-5 explosion sources within the same 8-yard radius.
The goal of this change is that you can no longer predict whether triggering the demo will wipe a squad that's standing right on top of it, yet the demo charge will cause massive casualties to an enemy blob.
Something needs to be done with Demos at somepoint.
How about just making it only deployable on structures like in COH, hmmm? Because I don't believe the Soviets in reality could spare explosives on randomized places on the battlefield in hopes they would catch an off guard German squad and blow em to high hell.
Demolition charges should be used for what they were intended, blowing bridge, obstacles and denying the enemy strategic structures, not using them as MLG pro competitive trap bombs like it is now, that's just cheesy bullshit.
Nobody complained about demo charges in the first game after the change was made for them to be only deployable on structures and not like, sandbags like it was before.
And the commando demo charges weren't there most of the time to make a drastic impact since most British players like me preferred to go either Royal Artillery or Royal Engineers.
2 Jan 2017, 11:33 AM
#14
Posts: 2260 | Subs: 1
If you detect 3 demo charges your opponent has lost 300 muni for nothing.
after this, your opponent usually stops laying them.
also demo charges usually mean no mines
after this, your opponent usually stops laying them.
also demo charges usually mean no mines
2 Jan 2017, 11:59 AM
#15
Posts: 1003
Good solution is give, not moving infantry, pasive detection abbility.
Better detection range for recon units, less for combat oriented (Wafen (ober), Rangers, Storms).
Second thing, recon vehicles need abtain more invisible detection range. Kubel, jeep, Puma, AEC, ...., ares recon vehicles, but many times are not able detect sniper 10m away.
Lets make recon vehicles great again, as in CoH1 was.
Better detection range for recon units, less for combat oriented (Wafen (ober), Rangers, Storms).
Second thing, recon vehicles need abtain more invisible detection range. Kubel, jeep, Puma, AEC, ...., ares recon vehicles, but many times are not able detect sniper 10m away.
Lets make recon vehicles great again, as in CoH1 was.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
2 Jan 2017, 12:38 PM
#16
Posts: 465
add flares to the stuka bomb then u can touch demo charges
1. Relic bans, not me. 2. It stands in the rules: If you are banned more often, the duration increase and can lead in the end to permaban 3. The Case is bigger as you guys think. So pls step 1 step away pls. 4. I am not a player in the 4vs4 cup, because of RL work.
2 Jan 2017, 12:48 PM
#17
Posts: 1093
add flares to the stuka bomb then u can touch demo charges
we can also scale back the ninja buff
2 Jan 2017, 13:27 PM
#18
Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4
Permanently Banned You dont need capture whole map, you must watch about soviet pio, see pio capture points, send pio there, this game sometimes are about tacticks and moves with infatry. I just cannot undestand in what game modes you need 2 pio to find demo ? Buff minesweeper range is bad idea. Just need accept demo like fact.
If moders whanna nerf demo to stop wipes, should nerf all weapons,all bombs, all rockets, all shoots (hello ST) for survive 1 man for all squads.
Add soviet factions heavy tank in tier or make is-2 callin after all tier buldings, why not ? If we change game.
If moders whanna nerf demo to stop wipes, should nerf all weapons,all bombs, all rockets, all shoots (hello ST) for survive 1 man for all squads.
Add soviet factions heavy tank in tier or make is-2 callin after all tier buldings, why not ? If we change game.
Relic killing our game, lets save COH2 from Relic 
If you're not a ахіs lover when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a soviet fanboy by the time you're 30, you have no brain.
Relic delenda est
If Dane will be have son, he will be call him (Sturmgeschütz)
Brotheres, what we do in coh2, ehoes in eternity
If you're not a ахіs lover when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a soviet fanboy by the time you're 30, you have no brain.
Relic delenda est
If Dane will be have son, he will be call him (Sturmgeschütz)
Brotheres, what we do in coh2, ehoes in eternity
2 Jan 2017, 13:39 PM
#19
Posts: 1003
Make is-2 callin after all tier buldings, why not ?
This sound interest and dont touch 1v1. Dont you want start topic about this?
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
2 Jan 2017, 13:43 PM
#20
4 Posts: 550 | Subs: 1
Remove demos from the game and give the affected factions s-mine fields, which are better at area denial and countering blobbing anyway and are about just as good at wiping squads as demos.
Poor choice of words, it is not to say they are equal. To reiterate, I do not claim that s-mines are better for cheesy 1 squad wipes. What I'm saying is: Replace demos with s-mines and we can leave this discussion behind since there does not seem any good way to balance them.
Poor choice of words, it is not to say they are equal. To reiterate, I do not claim that s-mines are better for cheesy 1 squad wipes. What I'm saying is: Replace demos with s-mines and we can leave this discussion behind since there does not seem any good way to balance them.
Help test the USF teching adjustment mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1553135357
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