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Buff Wehrmacht

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29 Jun 2016, 06:53 AM
#21
avatar of Godrick

Posts: 3

Clearly Ostheer is now worst faction and even if you have supreme strategic and micro skills you will roughly win against same skilled opponent with USF or UKF (against Russians it is not that bad). Few examples:

1) Grenadiers are weak as hell and loose almost every fight with Riflemans of Tommies (the rate of Tommies of sniping models is insane); MG42 upgrade does not help

2) Panzergrenadiers come in most case too late to balance the blobs of Allied infantry

3) Panzerwerfer has become pretty much useless since Relic nerfed it to the hell (as expensive fireworks it works) - you can compare it against overpowered or underpriced Calliope - can by destroyed with one antitank hit (like Katyusha, but Panzerwerfed should be at least more armoured than Katyusha)

4) Ostheer (same OKW, but it has some other strong points) has barely such smoke options as USF (only dosctrinal)

5) British Comet can compete quite good for example Tiger, which you can have only one on the battlefield and it is more expensive; and you can have more of them

6) Pershing performs like beast and has pop cap just like Panther? WTF

7) I have no clue, why Elefant lost ability tracking - this made it pretty much useless

8) Pak vs M1 57mm and 6-pounder - needs but at least against infantry; or nerf Allied AT

and so on... I think that main problem is, that ostheer has no real strong point (in COH1 it was veterancy and much better tanks) - infantry is weak, armour is not good as it should be (in my opinion) and artillery with air support are in most cases weaker than Allied. US mortar was already mentioned.

On the other hand I consider OKW faily balanced (without their 20mm flak outposts), Russians are good too. Ostheer just need buff or more options to counter USF and UKF.

29 Jun 2016, 07:10 AM
#22
avatar of Hax0rJimDuggan

Posts: 24

Snipers and Mg's.....USF has no proper counter...GG
29 Jun 2016, 07:10 AM
#23
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17619 | Subs: 9

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2016, 06:53 AMGodrick
Clearly Ostheer is now worst faction and even if you have supreme strategic and micro skills you will roughly win against same skilled opponent with USF or UKF (against Russians it is not that bad). Few examples:

Ost always had high micro tax, but recent changed gave it many indirect buffs, mine change alone is HUGE as there are not longer random squad loses, while s-mines still wipe squads with 2-3 mines.

1) Grenadiers are weak as hell and loose almost every fight with Riflemans of Tommies (the rate of Tommies of sniping models is insane); MG42 upgrade does not help

The moment you will finally realize that grenspam is dead and combined arms is the ONLY way to go will be the moment you'll stop thinking that.

2) Panzergrenadiers come in most case too late to balance the blobs of Allied infantry

Don't play 4v4?
There are no blobs in 5th minute, unless you play that scrubfest.

3) Panzerwerfer has become pretty much useless since Relic nerfed it to the hell (as expensive fireworks it works) - you can compare it against overpowered or underpriced Calliope - can by destroyed with one antitank hit (like Katyusha, but Panzerwerfed should be at least more armoured than Katyusha)

Well, it wasn't supposed to be a doomsday, it still is incomparably better and much more deadly then katy.

4) Ostheer (same OKW, but it has some other strong points) has barely such smoke options as USF (only dosctrinal)

Ostheer has smoke option from the very first building they can get, they have it doctrinal on the tanks and as off-map plane. Their smoke options are enough, but the only single player I've ever seen utilizing them was StephennJF.

5) British Comet can compete quite good for example Tiger, which you can have only one on the battlefield and it is more expensive; and you can have more of them

British are designed to fight heavy tanks with ease.
You might want to consider that next time you'll want to get a tiger against them.

6) Pershing performs like beast and has pop cap just like Panther? WTF

You might want to check Pershings HP, armor and cost.

7) I have no clue, why Elefant lost ability tracking - this made it pretty much useless

Because it was batshit OP, eliminated need for scouting, allowed for pretty much map hack with spotting scopes and rewarded no skill.
Same thing happened to ISU.

8) Pak vs M1 57mm and 6-pounder - needs but at least against infantry; or nerf Allied AT

Now I'm 100% positive that you're mental or at the very least under the influence of some serious hard drugs.

and so on... I think that main problem is, that ostheer has no real strong point (in COH1 it was veterancy and much better tanks) - infantry is weak, armour is not good as it should be (in my opinion) and artillery with air support are in most cases weaker than Allied. US mortar was already mentioned.

The strong point of ost is combined arms, if you will constantly keep ignoring the options you have, you will always feel weak, because you yourself are limiting your options, despite having everything you need.
29 Jun 2016, 07:24 AM
#24
avatar of A big guy 4u

Posts: 168

Yet another axis power creep/whine thread.

29 Jun 2016, 07:29 AM
#25
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 820 | Subs: 3

Intresting how dem allies fanbois come out to dizz axis fanboiz LUL
29 Jun 2016, 07:33 AM
#26
avatar of Chet

Posts: 46

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2016, 07:10 AMKatitof

Ost always had high micro tax, but recent changed gave it many indirect buffs, mine change alone is HUGE as there are not longer random squad loses, while s-mines still wipe squads with 2-3 mines.


The moment you will finally realize that grenspam is dead and combined arms is the ONLY way to go will be the moment you'll stop thinking that.


Don't play 4v4?
There are no blobs in 5th minute, unless you play that scrubfest.


Well, it wasn't supposed to be a doomsday, it still is incomparably better and much more deadly then katy.


Ostheer has smoke option from the very first building they can get, they have it doctrinal on the tanks and as off-map plane. Their smoke options are enough, but the only single player I've ever seen utilizing them was StephennJF.


British are designed to fight heavy tanks with ease.
You might want to consider that next time you'll want to get a tiger against them.


You might want to check Pershings HP, armor and cost.


Because it was batshit OP, eliminated need for scouting, allowed for pretty much map hack with spotting scopes and rewarded no skill.
Same thing happened to ISU.


Now I'm 100% positive that you're mental or at the very least under the influence of some serious hard drugs.

The strong point of ost is combined arms, if you will constantly keep ignoring the options you have, you will always feel weak, because you yourself are limiting your options, despite having everything you need.


Repeating the mantra that "grenspam is dead" is not a legitimate argument against buffing grenadiers to make them a more worthwhile investment. Combined arms are used by the vast majority of Ostheer players, yet due to the recent patch we are seeing MG42s get wiped within literally seconds against the USF mortar.

The combined arms capacity of Ostheer is not that remarkable compared to its counterparts. The one build order fits all playstyle of USF right now is what hurts Ostheer the most, and it is quite evident in matches with the ubiquitous mortar+rifleman into stuart combination that creams any combined arms combination that Ostheer puts together in the early portion of a match.
29 Jun 2016, 07:34 AM
#27
avatar of Chet

Posts: 46

Snipers and Mg's.....USF has no proper counter...GG


Snipers are not always viable dependent on the map, and USF mortar is the best counter in the game currently to the MG42.
29 Jun 2016, 07:43 AM
#28
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

Conscripts wreck grenadiers, mg42 unusable, what next, T70 kills tiger, su76 counters elephant, ostwind should shoot down spaceships?
29 Jun 2016, 07:46 AM
#29
avatar of CartoonVillain

Posts: 471

I only play axis but this thread is nonsense.
29 Jun 2016, 07:49 AM
#30
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17619 | Subs: 9

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2016, 07:33 AMChet


Repeating the mantra that "grenspam is dead" is not a legitimate argument against buffing grenadiers to make them a more worthwhile investment.

Then how about this:
You want grens to stand up to rifles and tommies.
They are NOT supposed to, because if they did, we'd have grenspam meta all over again, not to mention the broken balance relations vs every single allied infantry unit.
Most of the buff gren suggestions would make them easily outperform all of allied core infantry, its pretty clear that will never happen for the faction with early access to best supporting units.

Grens will never be buffed, because that is against their design, they perform well for the cost and within the role they have, they win vs what they are supposed to win, they lose vs units they are supposed to lose, you want to win vs units they are losing? Add HMG or sniper to the mix and there, you're now winning, because this is how the faction is intended to be played.
If you're focusing exclusively on grens, which about every single axis fanboy goal here is, you'll have a bad time, because again, the faction is NOT supposed to be played like that.

Combined arms are used by the vast majority of Ostheer players, yet due to the recent patch we are seeing MG42s get wiped within literally seconds against the USF mortar.

Because USF mortar is fine and balanced :snfBarton:
That is NOT an argument, that is an excuse, poor one as well.

The combined arms capacity of Ostheer is not that remarkable compared to its counterparts. The one build order fits all playstyle of USF right now is what hurts Ostheer the most, and it is quite evident in matches with the ubiquitous mortar+rifleman into stuart combination that creams any combined arms combination that Ostheer puts together in the early portion of a match.

Which again boils down to mortar, which is a balance issue.
Tone that down and you won't have issue. Period.

If a singular unit is overperforming, you nerf that singular unit, you don't buff all units it counters, because then you'd end up in buff loop for everything.

You can't see that, I can-thats why I work with game design and you don't.
29 Jun 2016, 08:30 AM
#31
avatar of Chet

Posts: 46

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2016, 07:49 AMKatitof

Then how about this:
You want grens to stand up to rifles and tommies.
They are NOT supposed to, because if they did, we'd have grenspam meta all over again, not to mention the broken balance relations vs every single allied infantry unit.
Most of the buff gren suggestions would make them easily outperform all of allied core infantry, its pretty clear that will never happen for the faction with early access to best supporting units.

Grens will never be buffed, because that is against their design, they perform well for the cost and within the role they have, they win vs what they are supposed to win, they lose vs units they are supposed to lose, you want to win vs units they are losing? Add HMG or sniper to the mix and there, you're now winning, because this is how the faction is intended to be played.
If you're focusing exclusively on grens, which about every single axis fanboy goal here is, you'll have a bad time, because again, the faction is NOT supposed to be played like that.


Because USF mortar is fine and balanced :snfBarton:
That is NOT an argument, that is an excuse, poor one as well.


Which again boils down to mortar, which is a balance issue.
Tone that down and you won't have issue. Period.

If a singular unit is overperforming, you nerf that singular unit, you don't buff all units it counters, because then you'd end up in buff loop for everything.

You can't see that, I can-thats why I work with game design and you don't.


Once again, your arguments amount to a whole lot of nothing. Buffing grenadiers to prevent the incessant squadwiping and late game tendency to get smacked around would not somehow by default make them superior to opposing squads.

A balanced change can be done wherein grenadiers survivability can be increased to prevent them from just becoming a totally wasted investment. This does not mean that they must be superior to the various allied infantry squads.

For someone claiming to work with game design you really seem quite clueless!
29 Jun 2016, 08:42 AM
#32
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

Grenadier buff needs to happen even if price is increased...dont try to hide behind 'design' excuse katitof...it wasnt 'design' for usf to recieve pershing or this supermortar or all the goodies it has kept getting without any toning down of its strong elements.
It WAS design that if ost survived to lategame they would bring out very powerful armour...which surprise they dont.Lol.You cant apply design argument selectively.


You buff wehr infantry and panther or you nerf usf hard and tone down allied vet buffs,easy choice really.
29 Jun 2016, 08:48 AM
#33
avatar of PencilBatRation

Posts: 794

Ostheer is in a fine place.
Not at all, the whole community is in disagreement with that cliche meme.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/54212/faction-satisfaction-poll
29 Jun 2016, 08:56 AM
#34
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

Not at all, the whole community is in disagreement with that cliche meme.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/54212/faction-satisfaction-poll

44 out of 84 voters is hardly a "whole commuinty"
29 Jun 2016, 08:59 AM
#35
avatar of PencilBatRation

Posts: 794


44 out of 84 voters is hardly a "whole commuinty"
Elslayer = "whole commuinty"
29 Jun 2016, 09:06 AM
#36
avatar of Chet

Posts: 46


44 out of 84 voters is hardly a "whole commuinty"


One must realize that poll is rather skewed to begin with, owing to the fact that people can vote yes to factions they do not care for out of spite.
29 Jun 2016, 09:13 AM
#37
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2016, 09:06 AMChet


One must realize that poll is rather skewed to begin with, owing to the fact that people can vote yes to factions they do not care for out of spite.

Why do you replying to me and not to that guy, who used these poll results as an argument?
29 Jun 2016, 09:14 AM
#38
avatar of PencilBatRation

Posts: 794

That poll aside, you know the faction is in a desperate situation when katitof starts a "Buff Whermacht" thread.
29 Jun 2016, 09:22 AM
#39
avatar of Chet

Posts: 46


Why do you replying to me and not to that guy, who used these poll results as an argument?


I am pointing out how that Ostheer still had the most votes for "no" there is significant when considering the fact I mentioned in my previous post.
29 Jun 2016, 09:30 AM
#40
avatar of TheSleep3r

Posts: 670

That poll aside, you know the faction is in a desperate situation when katitof starts a "Buff Whermacht" thread.

Ayy lmao look again at the OP's name

The katitof obsession of many is entertaining me
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