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[Ost] Rebalance

16 Jun 2016, 09:53 AM
#1
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

Hey, since may-balance-patch it is clear, Ostheer has some balancing problems. It is my favorit fraction, but they are too difficult to play for most players. And I think the fraction design is the problem.

It needs a redesign like OKW, my Suggestion:

T0: Pioniere, Grenadiere
T1: MG34, Sniper, leIG18
T2: Panzergrenadiere, 222, 251, PaK40
T3: Panzer IV, StuG III, Ostwind
T4: Panzerwerfer, Brummbär, Panther, Tiger

- Osttruppen: bunker changed with sandbags
- Pioniere: weapon (K98)
- Grenadiere: T0 grenade Model.24
- Grenadiere: bunker removed
- MG42: switched with MG34
- Mortar: switched with leIG18
- Panzergrenadiere: 2-Ost-Schrecks changed with 1-West-Schreck
- 222: more sight non-doc
- Ostwind: main-gun can suppress (aoe:4, needed shots: ~6)
- Panther: range buff to 55.
- Tiger: non-doctrianl (max. 2 at same time. Cooldown of 20min to build next one)

- Trench changed with CoH1 model, same stats as Brits-bunker. Cost 50mp. MG can't be garrisoned.
- Scope removed.
- StuG and Elefant: Tankhunter-view like Soviet.

Changes for other fractions:
US: Easy8 non-doctrianl
Soviet: T34/85 non-doctrinal
Brits: -
OKW: leIG18 switched with Mortar34. MG34 switched with MG42.


What do you think? Of course, the units need other changes. But the superficial fraction-design?=
16 Jun 2016, 09:59 AM
#2
avatar of SolidSteel

Posts: 74

Non doc tigers ? 2 at the same time ? wut

55 Range panthers? holy shet.
16 Jun 2016, 10:03 AM
#3
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8

That's not redesign, that's your wet dream and that's definitely not a thread for balance forum, but for modding hub at most.
16 Jun 2016, 10:04 AM
#4
avatar of medhood

Posts: 621

Yes these changes are PERFECT Relic should fire all their balance designers and hire you this instant
16 Jun 2016, 10:06 AM
#5
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

Panther has now 50 range but there is no reason to build it as Ostheer. StuG is much better, has faster reload and same range. Panzer IV + StuG is much better. Also Panther has low accuracy, it has to stay to hit something. OKW Panther has better stats and gets 55range at Vet4.

Two Tiger at same time. It is a better Panzer IV, it don't worth it as special unit. Make it expensive and make it difficult to built a secound one.
16 Jun 2016, 10:14 AM
#6
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8

Out of curiosity, is that you?

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198005288013

If so, well, explains a lot.
You play exclusively 4v4 AT and still suck at it.

You have much, MUCH bigger concerns then design of faction, and your suggestions just scream that you want to have an extremely easy a-move faction that can rely on spamming fuel caches in 4v4 only.

I can't see any other reason.
16 Jun 2016, 10:20 AM
#7
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

Initial post lacks list of faction's problems and explaination on how exactly each proposed change will address particular problem.
16 Jun 2016, 10:31 AM
#8
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

@ElSlayer: for me T4 is useless. Of course, Panzerwerfer are good if you play with an Artillerieoffizier. Brummbär is good since may-balance-patch. But Panther don't worth it.

Scope is OP. Osttruppen would be better if they could build sandbags. Why Pioneers have MG40? M24 for Grens would give them more potential against buildings in early game. LeIG18 and MG34 for Ost would be more realistic and to give them the worse counterparts would compensate the other changes like the M24. etc.

Ost's gamedesign is obsolete. Back to year 2013.
16 Jun 2016, 11:01 AM
#9
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

@ElSlayer: for me T4 is useless. Of course, Panzerwerfer are good if you play with an Artillerieoffizier. Brummbär is good since may-balance-patch. But Panther don't worth it.

For me (as a 4v4 player) it is not useless at all.


Scope is OP.

I agree.
But you want to remove it AND to buff base sight range on 222. Some consistency, eh?


Osttruppen would be better if they could build sandbags.

Again, is there a balance problem with Osttruppen?
You might as well say that "Osttruppen would be better if their damage would be buffed for 9000%".
Yes, they would be better. But that's just a statement, even if it is true. It doesn't explains anything.
Why they should be better? Would it make CoH2 a better game?


Why Pioneers have MG40?

Is there a problem? In early game you have long-range unit (Grens) and close-range unit (Pio). Why not?


M24 for Grens would give them more potential against buildings in early game.

You have flamer upgrade on Pios for that. Different units for different roles is a good approach. Anti-everything units (generalists that perform close to specialist level) is bad design.
It feels like you want to achive better results with less effort. Yes, combined arms is hard, but it feels rewarding when you manage to pull it off.


LeIG18 and MG34 for Ost would be more realistic and to give them the worse counterparts would compensate the other changes like the M24. etc.

That's not rebalance. That is changing the game to please single person that plays mostly that faction.

Grens are meant to be squishy (low total hp) unit that excels in long range combat and should be used from cover. MG42 is your "force multiplier" for Grens. It keeps enemy at long range and reduces incoming damage to your squishy Grens. MG34 (with its current stats) IMO would not be enough and grenade won't save your Grens.


Ost's gamedesign is obsolete. Back to year 2013.

IMO Ost is best designed faction.
Soviets are second.
Brits and WFA factions' design is lazy Power Creep mixed with QoL sugar (not always unnecessary).
16 Jun 2016, 11:57 AM
#10
avatar of bicho1

Posts: 168

Hey, since may-balance-patch it is clear, Ostheer has some balancing problems. It is my favorit fraction, but they are too difficult to play for most players.

It needs a redesign like OKW, my Suggestion:

T0: Pioniere, Grenadiere
T1: MG34, Sniper, leIG18
T2: Panzergrenadiere, 222, 251, PaK40
T3: Panzer IV, StuG III, Ostwind
T4: Panzerwerfer, Brummbär, Panther, Tiger

- Osttruppen: bunker changed with sandbags
- Pioniere: weapon (K98)
- Grenadiere: T0 grenade Model.24
- Grenadiere: bunker removed
- MG42: switched with MG34
- Mortar: switched with leIG18
- Panzergrenadiere: 2-Ost-Schrecks changed with 1-West-Schreck
- 222: more sight non-doc
- Ostwind: main-gun can suppress (aoe:4, needed shots: ~6)
- Panther: range buff to 55.
- Tiger: non-doctrianl (max. 2 at same time. Cooldown of 20min to build next one)

- Trench changed with CoH1 model, same stats as Brits-bunker. Cost 50mp. MG can't be garrisoned.
- Scope removed.
- StuG and Elefant: Tankhunter-view like Soviet.

Changes for other fractions:
US: Easy8 non-doctrianl
Soviet: T34/85 non-doctrinal
Brits: -
OKW: leIG18 switched with Mortar34. MG34 switched with MG42.


What do you think? Of course, the units need other changes. But the superficial fraction-design?=


USF

-pershing armor buf ,decrease relod time

-rangers free tompsons cos panzergreens get free SMG guns [or give panzergreens regular rifels and for some ammo they can get upgraded with there smgs ]

-oo and some hp buf for jaksonpls and for the poor shermans


16 Jun 2016, 12:01 PM
#11
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

What would fix Ostheer are minor changes:

- The Sniper should get less survivability (which they all do in the next patch)
- Teching to T4 should be made cheaper (which it is in the next patch)
- Brummbär buff (next patch)

- Minimal increase of the Panzer IVs penetration
- Panther buff to OKW standards
- Slight buff to Panzergrenadiere to stay relevant versus Bren and Bar blobs
- Minimal buff to Tigers front armor (+30 armor max) to reward good play with it
- Increase the price of the Sdkfz. 222
- Fixing the bugged Elite doc stun grenades
16 Jun 2016, 12:06 PM
#12
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

this is one of the most shit "redesign" ideas ive seen in a good while
16 Jun 2016, 13:31 PM
#14
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

Every time katitof blames someone else based on their playercard a cute kitten dies.
16 Jun 2016, 13:39 PM
#18
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17896 | Subs: 8

Every time katitof blames someone else based on their playercard a cute kitten dies.


What about threads like this?
These are kitten genocides and you know damn well how low OP needs to fall for ME to pull their playercard :romeoMug:

I don't care who you are or how you play if you are able to make reasonable arguments and explain your points.

Threads like this one here?
You sure its me who you should target here? :snfPeter:
16 Jun 2016, 14:21 PM
#19
16 Jun 2016, 14:55 PM
#20
avatar of PencilBatRation

Posts: 794

Ost has problems. Your post does not address their core issues however.


- Grens in T0 would negate a minimal advantage the SU has over them. T2 rush would be also too common that way, not that they have any groundbreaking game changer in that tier, but still. Giving them a close range nade is against their design and would make them too versatile.

- Any explanation regarding swapping a decent MG with the shittiest MH in gaem?

- The GrW is 100 times better than that unstable, inaccurate piece of garbage.

- 2 Shrecks are alright. It is a choice between dedicated powerful AI or dedicated powerful AT.

- Both the panther and ostwind need some kinds of improvements, not sure if your suggestion address their shortcomings.

- Double nondoctorinal tigers is a tad silly. Though seeing as how we face comet blobs, your suggestion isn't that far fetched. And with your proposed change to other factions it could be somewhat balanced.

- Those types of trenches are a design level advantage for the UKF. Let's not chnage it.

Every time katitof blames someone else based on their playercard a cute kitten dies.
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

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