russian armor

Balance Preview Patchnotes

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19 Nov 2015, 08:25 AM
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Nov 2015, 02:34 AMbC_
New version of the mod

Starting fuel reduced from 40 to 0
Panzershrecks cost back to 90
Volks cost increase from 235 to 250


With 100% income, do you consider increasing price for LMG for Obers? I mean... This upgrade is quite equal with 2xLMG for Paras or 2 LMG Grens squads etc... so right now there is no point to keep it at 60.

Same for Fusilier upgrade - small adjustment since 100% ammo income?

And one more thing, could you balance allied supply drop and axis one? My point is, SU supplu drop can be shooted down by AA, while Axis' one means 100% always.
19 Nov 2015, 08:29 AM
avatar of Shanka

Posts: 323

Shreckblob will be back it's a sure thing :snfPeter:
This patch put OKW without suppression, good luck dealing with spam cons, or spam RE
Kubel who can cap was horrible in closed alpha, don't you listen from your error relic ? <444>_<444>
And the fuel drop for SU is shit, the cargo plane goes by axis base everytime while the axis drop pass nicely by his base LELIC :snfPeter:

Churchill triple nerf is useless, while you nerf his price you don't even look at the grenade dmg which is OP LELIC :snfPeter:
Good job now you got anvil fucked, 70 muni is too much for heavy engi (60 feels better for me) INB4 people start to complain against Comet (because everyone will go Hammer)

19 Nov 2015, 08:35 AM
avatar of Jewdo

Posts: 271

Exciting changes. Allot of sour Brits.
Excited for this patch, apperantly my Ost is even worse than I thought,
since Ost recieved no direct love.
19 Nov 2015, 08:42 AM
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1

Well that's kind of my point.

There's no decisions to be made by the OKW player. They're going to build 1 kubel wagon and then some sort of mix of sturmpios/volksgrenadiers. EVERY GAME.

Compare that to the current version, where they can build a medic or mechanized truck extremely early (which incidentally also unlocks incendiary grenades. Good luck vs buildings for the first 4 minutes now.) and start doing cool things like get IR HT or ISG early, convert munis for fast flamers and mines, convert fuel for flak HT or even convert fuel to build a panzer command ASAP and get cool units like obers/luchs early on.

We're losing a shit ton of tech choices and strategic diversity here. Even DoW2 had wargear and t1.5 units to grant some tech diversity.

Hmm, good point. What if we took the OKW grenades, and put them behind a separate unlock, since the fuel income is no longer an issue. That way, OKW now gets to make an early game decision. You can also use this to make the panzerschreck an upgrade unlock, to slow it down from becoming a mindless early upgrade, maybe with some AI upgrade as another option thats unlocked.

OKW no longer needs all their upgrades tied to tech, since they no longer are starved.

You get diversity, more tactics, as well as a more "meaty" OKW tech.
19 Nov 2015, 08:48 AM
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Nov 2015, 08:35 AMJewdo
.... Ost recieved no direct love.

Lmg42 and G43 together on gren squad is not enough?
+ buf Kar98
19 Nov 2015, 08:50 AM
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Reducing their fuel to 0 is probably too far in the other direction. Every other faction can make some sort of teching decision within the first minute or two of the game: Brits can get t2 or upgraded squad sizes, Americans get grenades, weapon racks or an ambulance, Soviets can get t1/t2 or molotovs/AT grenades, Ostheer can choose to either get t1 or save up for a quicker battlephase 1. There's currently strategies that incorporate such decisions: brits often get early squad sizes vs ostruppen builds, americans can get early grenades sometimes, soviets can stay T0 for a bit with molotovs or tech up early for other stuff and t2 rushes with ostheer are pretty popular now that MG's are t0.

OKW can now do fuck all. They need to gather 45 fuel to make their first possible tech choice. This means that the only build order diversity you have is going to be manpower based. They don't even have anything to spend munitions on other than mines and sweepers (outside doctrinal stuff like flamers) until they buy a truck. This will make them incredibly stale and predictable in the first 3-4 minutes until they can field a truck. (And probably another 1-2 minutes before they can field much in the way of units)

God, this so so wrong.

Everyone can make teching choices in first 1-2mins? And you call USF grende tech choice? As OKW you already have nades (juest get rid of 1 truck to unlock them/or make HQ upgrade like USF). Ambulance or weapon racks in first 1-2min? WUT?

Please tell me, how much fuel you need as USF to make first tech? Until that what you can do? Only RE or RF + grenades (if unlocked) and sweepers. You cant even plant mines.
As OKW you can get Kubel, Volks, SP and Raketen + grenades, mines, sweeper. Way more option than USF yet I dont see you raging on USF choices.
19 Nov 2015, 08:51 AM
avatar of Jewdo

Posts: 271

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Nov 2015, 08:48 AMAradan

Lmg42 and G43 together on gren squad is not enough?
+ buf Kar98

G43 is tied to a doctrine, so no! :D

I actually thought the kar98 buff was only on the OKW volks, my bad.
19 Nov 2015, 08:52 AM
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

OKW doesn't have any fuel base unit(bren,ambulance), upgrades (nade, weapon rack, squad size), or buildings (wehr and sov tiers) to worry about. Everything they need for the first 5-6 minute is right there in the main hq with no fuel cost.

Actually they need the first tech building to unlock the incendiary nades. So I agree with Dullahan. It's tough for OKW early games having 0 starting fuel. Previously I didn't know the new sWS-truck costs 15 fuel.
19 Nov 2015, 08:54 AM
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17788 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Nov 2015, 08:48 AMAradan

Lmg42 and G43 together on gren squad is not enough?
+ buf Kar98

Grens kar got no change.
19 Nov 2015, 08:58 AM
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Nov 2015, 08:51 AMJewdo

G43 is tied to a doctrine, so no! :D

I actually thought the kar98 buff was only on the OKW volks, my bad.

My fault.

But G43 + Lmg42 is awesome combo.
19 Nov 2015, 08:59 AM
avatar of KoufromMizuchi

Posts: 172

I hate StormTrooper add in " Elite Troop Commander" I think add another unit and more skill.
Storm need buff, not the replacement for them.

I can remember when Stormless and Robbie opposed to Stormtrooper buff suggestion.
Now, it can be called in another doctrine, so give it some buff.
Plain rifles for 4 man surprise squad, insane exp requirement for vet, muni costing STGs DPS similar to Panzergrens... :sibToxic:
19 Nov 2015, 09:03 AM
avatar of samich

Posts: 205

I like the direction of the changes but I think OKW munitions and fuel costs needs looking at with the removal of the handicaps.

I also agree with some earlier posts that giving them a few options/side techs in the early game would help flesh them out a bit.

Rifle company seems a little lack luster now to, I'm all for the removal of flamers from mainline infantry and the vet changes but I think the rear echelon flamer unlock should also give access to a thompson upgrade for rifles (maybe 2x thompson for 70-90 muni or that ball park). Give them some more close range fire power (as i imagine was the intent of the upgrade originally) without the garrison/cover mitigation that made the flamer so broken.

A lot of the UKF changes seem fair, I still think something needs doing to improve their emplacements though.
19 Nov 2015, 09:05 AM
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

Wuut, 100% amo income and decrease shreck cost to 70 amo? Hello shreck blob.
OKW with no income penalties at all and with THAT tech tree?! :S

Omg you overdid it again Lelic. :facepalm:

Wtf I wanted a balanced faction not an unstopable one.

I guess we'll see 100% of axis players going OKW....
19 Nov 2015, 09:06 AM
avatar of MoerserKarL
Donator 22

Posts: 1108


If OKW starts with 0 fuel, they should at least remove the 15 fuel cost of the sws truck.

JohnnyB they switched the cost back to 90 Munition for schrecks
19 Nov 2015, 09:12 AM
avatar of Jewdo

Posts: 271

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Nov 2015, 08:58 AMAradan

My fault.

But G43 + Lmg42 is awesome combo.

Yea I remember, it was possible at one point.

Still, tied to a doctrine. :(
19 Nov 2015, 09:15 AM
avatar of KoufromMizuchi

Posts: 172

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Nov 2015, 08:48 AMAradan

Lmg42 and G43 together on gren squad is not enough?
+ buf Kar98

You're saying like patch mod allows ost player to upgrade both on 'a' squad.
Does the mod allow it? (I haven't tried mod yet) If it's not, g43 just got its buff that should've been brought long time ago.
3CP negated the g43 before.
19 Nov 2015, 09:16 AM
avatar of medhood

Posts: 621

I like the new rear echelon flamers cause they get them earlier :) I was hoping to try out fired up but relic forgot to add it in I think

Also my friend really likes elite troops now that it has stormtroopers
19 Nov 2015, 09:16 AM
avatar of some one

Posts: 934

No Ost sniper health nerf in this patch
19 Nov 2015, 09:20 AM
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3554 | Subs: 1

100% income but still free flak on the T3 truck locking 1/3 of any 1vs1 map.
100% income but still fuel/amo free healing retreat point truck anywhere you want on the map + free repairing station T2 truck.

You can balance volks/luch/pz4/panther etc... as much as you want as units. But with the starving gone, all the side OKW game mechanisms are getting a huge boost now.

Imo, trucks abilities (heal&reinforce, station repear, flakgun) should get disabled when the territory where trucks are landing is taken.
19 Nov 2015, 09:20 AM
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Nov 2015, 08:12 AMbC_

there was an issue trying to rebuild the first mod so we had to make another version.

It seems that 0 starting fuel is too tough for OKW early games. What if giving OKW 20 fuel for starting and increasing the Mechanized HQ cost to 60 fuel? The US needs 60 fuel to tech to T3( for Stuart Rush) too. A puma/pz II only needs 40(T3)+15=55 fuel to unlock is just way too fast, if you compare this with the Soviet T3 cost(at least 85 fuel required).

Also, I'm so suprised the OKW can get a panther much faster than Ostheer now. It only needs about 160 fuel to unlock the OKW panther. While the Ostheer will cost at least 210 fuel to unlock if you rush to skip to T4. But who skips to T4 as Ostheer anyway? If they have built T3 units, they simply need huge 45(BP3)+75(T4)=120 fuel to tech to T4. If add the panther cost, it's 45+75+175=295 fuel...Pls pay attention to this issue Dear Relic...

Previously I posted a thread for a proposal sugestion:
BP2 cost from 45 to 75
T3 cost from 75 to 45
BP3 cost doesn't change
T4 cost from 75 to 45

This will give the Ost more choices when they have built T3 units instead of waiting for tigers all the time. And it doesn't change anything when accessing to T3 or skipping to T4.

Will the Ost T4 high tech cost be remembered?:foreveralone:

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