russian armor

Cruzz's The More You Know

PAGES (55)down
6 Jul 2015, 11:29 AM
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 42

Some random things you may or may not have known about whatever.

Note: when an ability that affects infantry has +1 speed listed, this means it will change posture to the next one. Infantry default move speed is 3.6, gaining +1 posture speed will raise them to the "fast" speed which is 5.4. If they are moving in mud then they will go from 2 to 3.6 instead.

Friendly fire damage and damage against enemy units are completely different. As a general rule, tank guns have 50%, flamers 25%, explosive weapons mostly 0-10% damage with some notable exceptions like pwerfer (25%), walking stuka (50%), sturmtiger (100%). For example Brit base howitzer damage to friendlies is a whopping 2.5%, so a direct hit from a howitzer (160*0.025*4) deals as much damage to a full squad as a single hit from a kar98k (16*1).

HMG and Mortar crews now lose their 1.25 received accuracy penalty permanently upon getting decrewed as this penalty is on the initial crew rather than the squad. In addition team weapons will inherit the BASE received accuracy of a squad used to recrew them.

Vehicle Priorization will be disabled after using any ability that switches the weapon temporarily (SU-76 barrage, ZiS-3 barrage, Pak40/43 stun shot, Stug TWP, etc). You will need to switch it off and on again.

A squad does not need a minesweeper to defuse mines, all the 4 basic constructor units can always defuse (and usf assault engineers) though you do need a nearby sweeper for the detection part.

Sweepers work inside transports, but not as usf vehicle crews.

Partisans, Mechanized halftrack LMG42 grenadiers, puma ostruppen, do not take extra damage while constructing.

Planting democharges or tripwires does not increase damage taken as they're technically not building.

Flaming ground to destroy mines doesn't really work. Flamers have around 2 penetration, mines have 35 armor. And you need two to three penetrations to kill. You can clear demos though.

Don't complain about your squads getting wiped if you stand in front of cover against tanks. In the majority of scatter cases the round will impact on the cover behind the squad and, and the squad in front of it.

Cover mechanics

Negative cover increases received damage by +25% and this applies to all weapons except flamethrowers (which do no extra damage). Tank shells, mortars, and mines are extremely likely to wipe squads that are on red cover because of this.

Small arms, including vehicle MGs, ignore positive cover except for garrison cover within 10 range (use vet0 molotov targeting circles to learn ranges, inner circle is 5 range, outer circle 15). Negative cover applies at all ranges.

Green cover reduces damage from all attacks that aren't flamebased, including grenades and mortars which people tend to consider counters to cover. Whether the -50% damage is applied to a weapon depends on where it was FIRED from rather than on where the attack lands.


Grenadier Conscript 1 || Conscript 2

Grenadier firing riflegrenade on Conscript 1 will do full damage and thus is able to kill models outright on hit. Firing a riflegrenade on Conscript 2 will only do half damage and thus will only succeed in taking 50% off a model's health at best.

Damage against heavy cover:
50% damage and 50% accuracy for all weapons not in this list:

125% damage & 100% accuracy: Infantry flamethrowers (not applied to DOT)
100% damage & 100% accuracy: Heavy Artillery (Rocket Artillery except Calliope & immobile howitzers & Priest & Sexton), Vehicle Flamethrowers, Most offmap attacks, Churchill Crew Grenades, SU-76 barrage, ZIS barrage
50% damage & 100% accuracy: Calliope
100% damage & 50% accuracy: Centaur
50% damage & 90% accuracy: Infrared STG
25% damage & 50% accuracy: Luchs

Damage against Garrisons:

Flamer weapons have 125% damage
Grenades have 100% damage
Small arms have 50% damage and 55% accuracy
Heavy Artillery and tank guns have 25% damage.
Mortars have 50% damage

ISU152 (40% damage),
Sherman HE (35% damage), Infrared STG (50% damage, 90% accuracy), Centaur (50% damage, 40% accuracy)
Luchs, 251 Flak (35% damage and 40% accuracy)

Weapons which have a notable amount of guaranteed damage to all models in a house due to high aoe far and damage all in hold flag:
Pershing main gun (11),Flame attacks (12-20 damage to everything inside house per burst), Commando/Officer grenade(30), Hammer satchel(50), Guard/Partisan grenade (40 damage), Other grenades(20 damage), Firefly rocket(60), Panzerwerfer(24 damage), Sturmtiger(48), Churchill AVRE(33).

Buildings that are on the map at the start (not player built ones) are immune to small_explosive type weapons. All infantry grenades, including Penal Satchels but excluding British Hammer satchel for tommies, fall under this category.


Team Weapons and Bulletins

Models used to recrew team weapons will still gain bulletin effects that have entity targets, which is most of them. So using grenadiers to recrew a maxim, your new maxim squad will have grenadier bulletin effects on them (these will not improve the machine gun itself because the team weapon is its own entity, only the groupies).

The default recruit/officer/veteran training bulletins for HMGs and ATGuns will function on all captured team weapons of the same type. So if you have a 4% penetration bulletins equipped for atguns as ostheer, an allied (or raketenwerfer, doesn't matter) atgun you steal will also have +4% penetration.

Some Ostheer bulletins affect multiple different units:

Note: This is an Ostheer only thing. Other factions have their bulletins targeted properly.

Note2: this is generally a one way effect. Assgrenadiers are grenadiers, but grenadiers are not assgrens. Specialist unit bulletins will generally not work with the base unit, its only base unit bulletins working on the specialist version.

Grenadiers & Assault Grenadiers & Assault Officer (entity type: grenadiers)
&& Ostruppen (entity type: conscripts)
Infantry Recruit Training (Grenadier & conscript accuracy)
Infantry Officer training (Grenadier & conscript reload)
Infantry veteran training (Grenadier & conscript cooldown+reload)

Ostruppen aren't grenadiers, but they are typed as conscripts so they get the soviet side of the bulletin applied to them. Relic pls.

Grenadiers & Assault Grenadiers & Assault Officer (entity type: grenadiers)
Grenadier cooldown

Tiger Ace and Tiger: (entity type: tiger)
Tiger penetration
Tiger armor
Tiger sight & turret rotation

PZIV command tank and PZIV: (entity type: panzer)
PZIV armor
PZIV Rotation speed
PZIV Reload speed
PZIV penetration

Stug G and Stug E and Elefant (entity type: stug)
The 3 recruit/veteran/officer training bulletins for su-76 and stug
Stug G Mobility
Stug E rate of fire
Stug G penetration

Panzer Grenadiers & Stormtroopers (entity type: panzer_grenadier)
Panzer Grenadier Accuracy
Panzer Grenadier Received Accuracy

Well ok, USF has something similar though very minor
The 4 riflemen in a lieutenant squad , and 2 guys in a Captain squad are infact AEF_riflemen so they will get benefit from riflemen bulletins
2 guys in captain and major squads are REs for that sweet +1% accuracy bulletin too.

And soviet guard bulletins will work on the lend lease guards as well.

Abilities and other faction specific stuff


Easy Eight has no scatter penalty on the move so it will be just as effective against infantry with the main gun standing still as moving

WC51 actually doesn't have a moving accuracy penalty for units inside it, unlike other transports.

Sturmpioneer Minesweeper Repair: Doesn't matter whether you have sweeper out or not, the repair buff is applied always after buying upgrade. Standard repair speed for sturmpioneers is 3 hp/s per model, vet 2 adds +1, minesweeper upgrade adds another +1.

VET1 AP rounds on M36 will temporarily buff the damage on the gun back to 200 from the 160 it has by default. Also does not force reload on start so starting it immediately after Jackson fires will get you faster fire rate. Has a 3 second ready aim time so switching targets while this ability is on will result in a 3 second extra delay before firing (applies on first round no matter what because the weapon change counts as a first firing). Note that because the regular gun does not have a ready aim time, the Jackson will fire a regular shot immediately after the ability ends. Except for the damage part all of this applies to M10 AP rounds as well.

OKW smoke nades will disable all weapons on a vehicle like USF white phosphor (Comet White Phosphor does not do this)

The USF mortar HT vet1 delayed barrage has 1000 penetration (regular mortar penetration 35) and has the following crit chances on penetration on vehicles:
15% disable movement for 10 seconds, 22% engine damage, 4% immobilize. However due to the absolute massive scatter on this ability it largely functions as a grenade rather than something you can actually fire off into the distance.

Paratrooper / Ranger specials:

Airborne Assault:

OKW Puma aimed shot can target any enemy unit except buildings and has differing effects based on target. It has 1000% accuracy so will always hit even on retreat.

OKW SturmOffizier aura:

USF Mechanized / Recon IR Pathfinder artillery has 33% chance of crew shock and 33% chance of engine damage on enemy vehicles hit.

Stuart Point Blank Engine Shot is actually extremely potent. It is a guaranteed engine damage on any vehicle as it has no penetration and deals the engine damage on deflection. But it has 5 range so you probably will have a hard time getting it off against targets trying to move away from the stuart.

OKW Officer "Target Them" ability says it makes opponent units fight harder, but that's a lie. It just increases their received accuracy by 50% for 20 seconds which is not particularly useful with high accuracy okw units except when enemy is in yellow/green cover in which case it is a straight up 50% boost to DPS against that squad.

Goliath does 200 damage when blown up by the enemy, and an additional 200 damage when triggered through the explode button. So it will oneshot light vehicles when the player triggers it, but will only damage them if the enemy kills it next to the light vehicle.

For the fatherland

Soviet, Ostheer

Merged conscript models are now easier to hit than the regular members of a squad because their penalty to received accuracy is inherited.

Rapid Conscription and Relief infantry icons both show up on team weapons captured from other factions but will not affect them, nor will they work on any atgun or howitzer crews even from your own faction.

Propaganda Artillery:

For Mother Russia:

Opel Blitz truck gives: 5m/3f on regular point, 11m on muni point, 7f on fuel point. It also connects your territory, even when not set up.

Puma doctrine ostruppen have a 20% chance per squad of spawning with an LMG

Ostheer Railway Artillery first shell will always land close to the center of the targeting circle, the remaining 2 rounds scatter inside the area normally.

Ostheer 222/halftrack vet1 ability is 10 munitions for 20 seconds of 70 range detection on all infantry, including camouflaged ones. If you ever want to know where opponent snipers or pathfinders are, just pop this.


Tommies have a *0.35 accuracy and *1.5 cooldown multiplier while moving, nothing else in the game comes even close to being this bad on the move.

The UC has higher damage the farther away you are. It also has very bad moving modifiers. Far away and standing still it actually has extremely good damage, the best of all the light vehicles at that range. Too bad the attack move logic on vehicles moves it far closer in than it should go.

Croc main gun is half damage version of regular Churchill, which in turn is a Cromwell gun with 0.75 second slower reload

Brit sniper has +50% damage against vehicles, so he does 60 damage against vehicles but 40 on buildings and team weapons.

Valentine has crush, making it the fastest and smallest crusher in the game. Though the Cromwell does have the exact same movement stats so the only real difference is the size.

Tommies have a debuff of *1.4 reload and *1.2 cooldown while OUT of cover.

Vet1 Sappers gain *0.5 reload and *0.3 cooldown while IN cover on STEN only.

Anvil Heavy Sapper upgrade increases both repair and build speed by 100%

The Vanguard Officer will receive exp from nearby british units just like the three american officers.

Commandos, Sappers and Tommies all have their own version of the Bren when picked up from the weapon racks. Sapper and Tommy ones are nearly identical, with the sapper one just being slightly better. Commando Bren is significantly (~40%) stronger and can fire on the move with 50% accuracy.

Brit abilities

Bofors garrisoned barrage ability will destroy most buildings in a single barrage. The barrage also does 0 damage to friendlies so you can just waltz through it. No friendly damage also applies to Artillery Cover which is this same weapon except with half damage.

Hammer Gammon Bombs will immobilize any vehicle damaged for 8 seconds

Sniper critical shot is the same as OKW puma aimed shot crit wise

British Tank Commander gives *1.1 accuracy on main gun, +10 sight

Comet White Phosphor Smoke will NOT disable guns on target, unlike other white phosphor abilities.

Glider officer charge (15 munitions, 90sec recharge):
*0.25 received accuracy (yeah...), *0.8 cooldown, *1.4 accuracy, +1 speed for 10 seconds,
on all friendly infantry (so works on teammates), in radius 20

Commando camouflage:
Lasts for 3 seconds out of cover.
First strike bonus (requirement: 10 seconds since last combat, camouflaged, using default Sten):
+50% accuracy on first shot
+1 movement speed for 5 seconds

AEC tread shots (30 munitions, 30 second recharge, 50 range):
2 shots for 40 damage each, normal accuracy so may miss (especially on small target like kubel)
First shot gives 5 second engine damage
Second shot requires first shot to have hit and immobilizes for 3 seconds
This ability has an extremely small firing cone combined with a very long 2 second aim time, which means it will not fire against a unit that is not moving nearly directly towards or away from the AEC.

Artillery Commander Direct Barrage also gains Anvil Airburst shells if you are Anvil, gains nothing with Hammer.

Concentrated Fire Operation is Ostheer Railway artillery without the pinpoint first round and 5 rounds instead of 3. Also the UI radius is 40 but actually it fires in a radius of 15 in the center (ostheer one fires in radius of 20).

Hold the Line (250 munitions, 70 second duration)
Target all friendly sectors currently bordering on enemy sectors
All your infantry units in these sectors have *0.8 received accuracy.
After 30/35 seconds, starts an Overwatch for enemy infantry/vehicles in the original border sectors that are still friendly. When triggered, spawns a 30 second loiter with planes identical to the Vanguard commander loiter.

Designate Command Vehicle:
Reduces cooldown of all other commander abilities by 25%
Command Vehicle debuff:
*0.5 speed, *2 reload, *2 cooldown, *0.5 accuracy, *2 received accuracy
Command Vehicle aura on nearby units:
30 radius
*0.7 received accuracy, *1.35 accuracy, *0.7 reload, *0.7 cooldown

Tactical Support Reinforce the Front(150 munitions, 40 sec duration):
Halves reinforce time and increases movement speed by +1 for all your infantry that are in a friendly, connected territory when the ability starts for 40 seconds.
Drops a medic crate, a vickers HMG and a 6 pounder atgun in the targeted sector IF there is a friendly infantry unit in it during the ability. The medical supplies are the same as in the german luftwaffe ability:
Heal for 27 points, *0.87 reload and *0.87 received accuracy in radius 25 for 30 seconds.

Exploity mechanics

You can over double the fire rate of Rear Echelon rifle grenades from a fighting position by leaving the FP immediately after firing and then immediately re-entering again, skipping the 5 second reload.

Democharges triggered through damage rather than the button do more damage. A democharge+soviet mine is supposed to be 250+200 damage, but it does around 700 to a vehicle hitting this combo and thus oneshots most tanks. Never did figure out why this happened.


A bit on scatter...

Scatter has two components, horizontal and vertical

Horizontal scatter is determined by angle_scatter, and the value determines the amount of degrees that the round can deviate from the target position. You can calculate how far rounds can scatter with some simple trigonometry, namely a distance/tan(90-ANGLESCATTER/2 = angle scatter distance.

Vertical scatter is determined by distance_scatter_max, distance_scatter_offset and distance_scatter_ratio. Distance_scatter_ratio is the important bit here and works like angle except vertically. So again multiply by distance. The result will be capped by distance_scatter_max, in case the range*ratio value would be higher.

Distance_scatter_offset will determine the percentage of rounds that over or undershoot. It actually just moves the entire firing area forward, so even with a completely accurate reticule units with high offset will never hit in the closest part of the reticule and will overshoot the reticule on the far end.

Distance_scatter_max is always in force. This means that stuff like fog of war scatter penalty (25% for pretty much everything), on the move penalty generally only affects how much to the sides of the target you can scatter, not how far forward or backward from the target

Calculating DPS

Total damage:
accuracy(incremental, range, target_size, moving, cover)*damage(cover)*penetration(range, armor)*burst bullets(range, moving)*(1+reload frequency)
Burst bullets:
1 if single fire, otherwise Burst duration(range, moving)*rate of fire(range)

Time required:
(wind up+fire aim(range)+burst duration(range, moving)+wind down+cooldown(range, moving))*(1+reload frequency)
- cooldown(range, moving) - fire aim(range) + ready aim(range) + reload duration(range)

DPS: total damage/time required

Accuracy, penetration chance are capped at 1. Burst duration for non burst weapons is 0.125 (this game generally operates on 8 ticks a second, any amount of time is rounded to the closest 0.125). You will have to adjust rate of fire, burst duration, accuracy, cooldown and reload duration all with range. The one -cooldown is because there won't be a cooldown after the last burst before a reload.
6 Jul 2015, 11:46 AM
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
6 Jul 2015, 11:47 AM
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1135 | Subs: 1

Thanks cruzz! This is amazing.
6 Jul 2015, 11:48 AM
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2645

All hail der Cruzz
6 Jul 2015, 11:54 AM
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1500 | Subs: 1

This should be added to the guides section.
6 Jul 2015, 11:56 AM
avatar of samich

Posts: 205

6 Jul 2015, 12:03 PM
avatar of Theodosios
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 310

Posts: 1537 | Subs: 6

Scientia potentia est.

Cruzz is probably the most knowledgeable individual of the CoH2 community. :snfPeter:
6 Jul 2015, 12:06 PM
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Thank you Cruzz

(armor bulletin for sherman/okw panther, WILL stack on Panther but will NOT stack on Sherman)

6 Jul 2015, 12:38 PM
avatar of Cabreza

Posts: 652

Spectacular. Thank you Cruzz for letting us bask in your all encompassing knowledge of CoH2.

Can we please get this pinned to the front page?
6 Jul 2015, 12:40 PM
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1737

This is simply amazing. Thank you very much.
6 Jul 2015, 12:41 PM
avatar of ATCF
Donator 33

Posts: 587

Yeah nail this to the front page of COH2.org with a sledgehammer!
6 Jul 2015, 12:55 PM
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 2

6 Jul 2015, 12:57 PM
avatar of SwonVIP
Donator 11

Posts: 640

WOW! Great work! Thanks for sharing :)
I really appreciate it
6 Jul 2015, 13:00 PM
avatar of UGBEAR

Posts: 954

british will release when? Cruzz god?
6 Jul 2015, 13:00 PM
6 Jul 2015, 13:22 PM
avatar of luvnest
Strategist Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1059 | Subs: 20

Always remember to stay in Red Cover when engaging flamethrowers kids.

Nice Job Cruzz.
6 Jul 2015, 13:26 PM
avatar of _underscore
Donator 33

Posts: 322

For the bulletin rules alone, this thread wins the forums.
6 Jul 2015, 13:39 PM
avatar of dpfarce

Posts: 308

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jul 2015, 11:29 AMCruzz

OKW Officer "Target Them" ability says it makes opponent units fight harder, but that's a lie. It just increases their received accuracy by 50% for 20 seconds which is not particularly useful with high accuracy okw units except when enemy is in yellow/green cover in which case it is a straight up 50% boost to DPS against that squad.

How did relic manage to fk this up??
6 Jul 2015, 13:39 PM
avatar of Hater

Posts: 439

What about non-working bulletins? Like that, which should reduce satchel's price. More of them maybe?

Opel Blitz truck gives: 5m/3f on regular point, 11m on muni point, 7f on fuel point. It also connects your territory, even when not set up.

Do you mean Blitz standing at cut-off territory which belong to enemy gives you resources from cut-off?
6 Jul 2015, 13:42 PM
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Great job cruzz :)
PAGES (55)down
2 users are browsing this thread: 2 guests

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

  • Ostheer flag Reto.GarGamel
  • The British Forces flag °NOOBMarkov.-
uploaded by Augustine

Board Info

242 users are online: 3 members and 239 guests
rudewoi, ykecitsmt, Singto_
57 posts in the last 24h
908 posts in the last week
4176 posts in the last month
Registered members: 24863
Welcome our newest member, ykecitsmt
Most online: 1221 users on 25 Feb 2020, 12:03 PM