I don't believe it's a major balance issue, but for the sake of fairness/consistency I think KT should be limited to one at a time. The only game modes it will ever have any impact on are 3v3s and 4v4s, which are notoriously axis favoured. They don't need this extra advantage.
When they make those *NDA* changes, hopefully at the same time as limiting KT to 1 at a time, I think the team balance will be better than ever.
Heavy Tank Limit
29 Jun 2015, 00:06 AM
#41
Posts: 1026
29 Jun 2015, 00:18 AM
#42
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
would this screen shot/thread be an issue if that were 2 panthers barreling towards your base....
you've buried the lead here... bait, and swittchhhh.
you've buried the lead here... bait, and swittchhhh.
29 Jun 2015, 00:37 AM
#43
Posts: 219
Apparently you can get 33 kt by the 5 minutes mark, but if you let a usf player go over the popcap you already lost :^)
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29 Jun 2015, 00:46 AM
#44
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Limiting all super heavies should be something normal.
For OKW, it would force player to use something else than KT instead of getting KT and waiting for another, I mean, why should I pick up anything else if I can get another KT? It's already best heavy tank in game.
In 4v4, you can get second KT at 26min.
It's not about countering it, because there are tools for that.
It's about limiting all super heavies to encourage players to use different vehicles instead of spamming IS2/KTs/Tigers etc.
Make KT/IS2 and support it with JPs/Panthers/SUs/T34.
JT is better than KT in certain situations. Iv beaten more than a number of players who thought the KT was the answer to all their woes and troubles; because it isn't. It's dreadfully slow which makes kiting it a joke even the most braindead player can pull off.
The KT after teching costs 40+80+260 = 380 fuel which is almost as much as 3 T34/85's. This of course doesn't take into account the fuel penalty which would bump it up to 520 which is as much as 2 IS2's.
Simply put; it's a white elephant. Iv found much better success with a Panther + stuka combo with support than putting all my fuel and pop cap in a slow beast which spends 2/3rds of it's life driving around shooting at nothing.
And to address your screen shot; next time don't give up map control of the entire map and then wonder why your enemy is crushing you when it comes to armor.
they cost more
#axisfanboyslogic
A Panther costs as much as 2 T34/85's so why does it always lose? And before you ask I'm counting teching costs for Ostheer and OKW (with the fuel penalty).
29 Jun 2015, 01:19 AM
#45
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned
A Panther costs as much as 2 T34/85's so why does it always lose? And before you ask I'm counting teching costs for Ostheer and OKW (with the fuel penalty).
2 TANKS VS ONE
comparing tech cost is soo stupid to justify unit performance or lack there of.
Using tech cots to justify unit-to-unit performance while ignoring that its 2 tanks vs one, to start a bullshit comparison between cost effectiveness.
#axisfanboyslogic
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
29 Jun 2015, 01:27 AM
#46
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
2 TANKS VS ONE
comparing tech cost is soo stupid to justify unit performance or lack there of.
Using tech cots to justify unit-to-unit performance while ignoring that its 2 tanks vs one, to start a bullshit comparison between cost effectiveness.
#axisfanboyslogic
Only one commander is capable of calling in 1 T34/85 at a time, so it will always be 2 T34/85's working in tandem with each other.
Tech costs are everything; why do you think call in meta is so broken? An Axis player has to tech and pay teching costs for all his best shit while a Soviet player can build his first (free) tier and then spend the rest of the game hording fuel till 10 CP's at which point he just unleashes and endless wave of tanks.
What exactly is there in Ostheer t4? The Pwerfer is shit from ass that's such a joke that it has less functional range than the bloody Sturmtiger, the Sturmpanzer also suffers because it's extremely awful path finding combined with a long reload speed and inaccurate main gun.
So I; as an Ostheer player techs all the way up to T4 for the amazing privilege of my 1 Panther getting overwhelmed because my opponent has to build literally 1 tier the entire game which is free anyway.
29 Jun 2015, 01:37 AM
#47
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned
Only one commander is capable of calling in 1 T34/85 at a time, so it will always be 2 T34/85's working in tandem with each other.
Tech costs are everything; why do you think call in meta is so broken? An Axis player has to tech and pay teching costs for all his best shit while a Soviet player can build his first (free) tier and then spend the rest of the game hording fuel till 10 CP's at which point he just unleashes and endless wave of tanks.
What exactly is there in Ostheer t4? The Pwerfer is shit from ass that's such a joke that it has less functional range than the bloody Sturmtiger, the Sturmpanzer also suffers because it's extremely awful path finding combined with a long reload speed and inaccurate main gun.
So I; as an Ostheer player techs all the way up to T4 for the amazing privilege of my 1 Panther getting overwhelmed because my opponent has to build literally 1 tier the entire game which is free anyway.
1 stug cost less than t34/85 and beat them, not to mention when supported with grens, paks, and mines. ( 2 stugs cost almost the same and still win)
But those are axis units, so I guess it fine that they beat t34/85's. Which cost more to support.
soo L2P
#axisfanboyslogic
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
29 Jun 2015, 01:42 AM
#48
Posts: 1026
Talk of T34/85 being OP is going to evaporate pretty fast when they deal with the last remnants of the call-in meta. Like, it's going to get fixed, there's no point whining about it all now.
29 Jun 2015, 01:43 AM
#49
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
1 stug cost less than t34/85 and beat them, not to mention when supported with grens, paks, and mines. ( 2 stugs cost almost the same and still win)
But those are axis units, so I guess it fine that they beat t34/85's. Which cost more to support.
soo L2P
#axisfanboyslogic
2 StuG's cost more than 2 85's because again; you have to tech for them. Dedicated AT units beating enemy tanks isn't surprising and nobody is saying 85's are unbeatable but it's aggressively annoying one player doesn't have to put any investment at all while one player does.
85's don't cost a single unit of fuel to support either; cons + t2 start (which is free fuel wise) which gives you everything you need to win the game right there. AT gun + suppression platform + light indirect. If you go guard motor that means you also have access to some of the best elite infantry in the game and the best mortar in the game to boot.
29 Jun 2015, 01:45 AM
#50
Posts: 967
I think that adding the king tiger limiting list would be enough.
With that change, in 3vs3 & 4vs4 allied have enough power to survive the Axis armor charge if all tools are used. (Mines, at-guns, Jacksons, su85, P-47, heavy call-in 1/p, zooks and at-nades)
That is one of the best change brought by the last patch.
With that change, in 3vs3 & 4vs4 allied have enough power to survive the Axis armor charge if all tools are used. (Mines, at-guns, Jacksons, su85, P-47, heavy call-in 1/p, zooks and at-nades)
That is one of the best change brought by the last patch.
VoltarDark
Long live to COH2, the king of all team RTS !
Long live to COH2, the king of all team RTS !
29 Jun 2015, 01:47 AM
#51
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned
it's aggressively annoying one player doesn't have to put any investment at all while one player does.
Sounds like you don't want to take the extra effort to use the faction properly and counter the 85's
But you are quick to tell usf players to flank against and mg that is clearly overperforming for its cost
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
29 Jun 2015, 01:48 AM
#52
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Talk of T34/85 being OP is going to evaporate pretty fast when they deal with the last remnants of the call-in meta. Like, it's going to get fixed, there's no point whining about it all now.
Pretty much, honestly if all heavies were tied behind teching like the KT is I would have zero problem with them being unlimited. The reason why call in meta is awful cancer is because it allows people to avoid investment and "play it safe" as it were while everyone else HAS to take the risk if they want to win.
29 Jun 2015, 01:50 AM
#53
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Sounds like you don't want to take the extra effort to use the faction properly and counter the 85's
But you are quick to tell usf players to flank against and mg that is clearly overperforming for its cost
The MG42 isn't germane to this discussion but Iv said multiple time in the other thread that I wouldn't care if it got bumped up to 260-280 MP.
Buuuut a smarter idea would be making USF early game more diverse; namaste.
29 Jun 2015, 01:51 AM
#54
Posts: 967
Pretty much, honestly if all heavies were tied behind teching like the KT is I would have zero problem with them being unlimited. The reason why call in meta is awful cancer is because it allows people to avoid investment and "play it safe" as it were while everyone else HAS to take the risk if they want to win.
That's so true. it remove the need to commit oneself.
VoltarDark
Long live to COH2, the king of all team RTS !
Long live to COH2, the king of all team RTS !
29 Jun 2015, 02:30 AM
#55
Posts: 1026
I dunno I like the call-in limit. I don't like seeing armies composed entirely of Tigers and IS2s, more wide spread use of mediums and assault guns feels more authentic to me and makes for more diverse builds. Will make playing USF with no heavies better too, since you're now fighting on more even ground all the time and don't have to focus all your efforts on countering the inevitable heavy swarms in team games.
29 Jun 2015, 02:52 AM
#56
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
I dunno I like the call-in limit. I don't like seeing armies composed entirely of Tigers and IS2s, more wide spread use of mediums and assault guns feels more authentic to me and makes for more diverse builds. Will make playing USF with no heavies better too, since you're now fighting on more even ground all the time and don't have to focus all your efforts on countering the inevitable heavy swarms in team games.
Well a lot is going to change soon so we are going to just see what happens and hope for the best.
29 Jun 2015, 07:45 AM
#57
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
A Panther costs as much as 2 T34/85's so why does it always lose? And before you ask I'm counting teching costs for Ostheer and OKW (with the fuel penalty).
Panther does not lose all the time vs 2 T34/85.
You will lose if T34/85 will get behind you, but since Panther is faster, it's not that simple.
If you keep them in front, there is a chance close to 0 that Panther will lose.
Outrange them, better armor, better penetration, better speed.
When you are saying things like that, you can also say that Panther will lose vs 2 T34/76 because if you get behind it, you will lose one T34, but you will also kill Panther; yet how many times have you seen T34/76 killing Panther?
29 Jun 2015, 07:47 AM
#58
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned
Panther does not lose all the time vs 2 T34/85.
yes it will
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
29 Jun 2015, 07:56 AM
#59
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
yes it will
If T34/85 wont get behind, Panther can win. It's all about RNG, how many times shells will bounce from Panther. Without any luck, Panther will lose, but with 5-6 bounces it will win.
Not to mention better speed and range.
29 Jun 2015, 08:17 AM
#60
Posts: 985 | Subs: 2
IMO:
1 slot for heavy tanks, or what it is the same 1JT or 1KT
For medium tanks was solved in the next patch (I hope)
1 slot for heavy tanks, or what it is the same 1JT or 1KT
For medium tanks was solved in the next patch (I hope)
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