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Heavy Tank Limit

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29 Jun 2015, 16:53 PM
#81
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Sums up my thoughts on this matter. My [options] shouldn't be limited if the opposing player can build 2 heavies.

Again, keep in mind this limitation is for 3 v 3 and 4 v 4 match up were we would see multiple heavies from 1 player, this is not rare. Also in 3 v 3 and 4 v 4s, team players can divide up to mitigate pop cap with OKW. For instance, 1 player goes CAS (infantry heavy), 2nd player will go P4s with Eles and small infantry, 3 support weapons and Panthers and 4th player spams KTs and Obers.


You still haven't answered the fact that if heavy limits are supposed to increase medium play; then why does OKW have no medium generalist tank to play with?
29 Jun 2015, 17:15 PM
#82
avatar of G4bb4_G4nd4lf
Donator 33

Posts: 658

Does the heavy tank limit only affect one tank or the player?

I mean, ISUs and IS-2s are limited at one but could I, for instance, have an ISU and an IS-2 if they were in the same commander?

If so, a limit to KTs and JTs would be pointless because players could still get both out.
29 Jun 2015, 17:19 PM
#83
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Does the heavy tank limit only affect one tank or the player?

I mean, ISUs and IS-2s are limited at one but could I, for instance, have an ISU and an IS-2 if they were in the same commander?

If so, a limit to KTs and JTs would be pointless because players could still get both out.



Only the tank which is why the second IS2 commander (Armored Assault) is fun to play with because you get 85's + IS2.
29 Jun 2015, 17:25 PM
#84
29 Jun 2015, 17:39 PM
#85
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2334 | Subs: 1



You still haven't answered the fact that if heavy limits are supposed to increase medium play; then why does OKW have no medium generalist tank to play with?


Because Relic tried too hard to make OKW faction different from the others, throwing even the basics of WW2 combat like HMGs and medium tanks into doctrines.

Also OKW panther is close to a generalist tank with how much DPS its machineguns have.
29 Jun 2015, 17:44 PM
#86
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Because Relic tried too hard to make OKW faction different from the others, throwing even the basics of WW2 combat like HMGs and medium tanks into doctrines.

Also OKW panther is close to a generalist tank with how much DPS its machineguns have.


Close, but the Panthers fairly long reload on the main gun means you will only ever be shooting the turret MG upgrade because using the coax on the gun is kinda silly.

I would be more than happy with the KT being limited to 1 (or just moved to a doctrine) and OKW getting some more mediums to play with....
29 Jun 2015, 17:45 PM
#87
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 1664 | Subs: 1

Yes, the solution to heavy tanks is ...

MOAR HEAVY TANKS !
29 Jun 2015, 18:18 PM
#88
avatar of Erguvan

Posts: 273

I m tired of idiotic topics on this forum :\
29 Jun 2015, 18:24 PM
#89
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1395

Does the heavy tank limit only affect one tank or the player?

I mean, ISUs and IS-2s are limited at one but could I, for instance, have an ISU and an IS-2 if they were in the same commander?

If so, a limit to KTs and JTs would be pointless because players could still get both out.


Exactly.
29 Jun 2015, 18:29 PM
#90
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1567 | Subs: 2

Yep. My opinion on this balance change is that while it was done with good intention it missed the mark. It should have been done by doubling or tripling pop cap of the heavy tanks.
29 Jun 2015, 18:35 PM
#91
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
Reduce heavies to 1,
Reduce King rear armor to 180
Reduce AOE to 3.5
Increase frontal armor to 425.
29 Jun 2015, 18:36 PM
#92
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2015, 18:29 PMNapalm
Yep. My opinion on this balance change is that while it was done with good intention it missed the mark. It should have been done by doubling or tripling pop cap of the heavy tanks.
lol wtf
29 Jun 2015, 18:41 PM
#93
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2015, 18:29 PMNapalm
Yep. My opinion on this balance change is that while it was done with good intention it missed the mark. It should have been done by doubling or tripling pop cap of the heavy tanks.


You know this would mean one IS2/Tiger/KT would take up 46 (doubled) or 69 (tripled) pop cap right?
29 Jun 2015, 18:47 PM
#94
avatar of m00nch1ld
Donator 11

Posts: 641 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2015, 18:29 PMNapalm
Yep. My opinion on this balance change is that while it was done with good intention it missed the mark. It should have been done by doubling or tripling pop cap of the heavy tanks.

that would be total fail.
29 Jun 2015, 23:52 PM
#95
avatar of sherlock
Patrion 14

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2015, 08:49 AMJohnnyB


Hold it right there, the picture doesn't show one KT and one JagdTiger? I think this is the case that we are looking at, because, you know, patch notes said KTs are limited to ONE at a time, like any other heavy. I know how to read english, wtf?!


The King Tiger is not limited to 1 on the field since it isn't a call in. You will find it missing in the patch note's list of heavies that are affected by the limit change.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/67-coh-2-changelog?p=179158#post179158

Relic did state that they are further evaluating on whether to limit the king tiger as well.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/179157-june-23rd-patch-notes-official-feedback-thread?p=179272#post179272
29 Jun 2015, 23:55 PM
#96
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1567 | Subs: 2

The solution we have now is total fail. Why are we taking a choice away from the players? All options should be available to a player after they have weighed the pros and cons of their decision. This heavy tank limit doesn't even affect all Factions equally. Again, good idea...bad implementation. Want to get your two heavy tanks? Its going to cost you more then just resources but a good part of your pop cap as well.
30 Jun 2015, 00:03 AM
#97
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6332 | Subs: 1



The King Tiger is not limited to 1 on the field since it isn't a call in. You will find it missing in the patch note's list of heavies that are affected by the limit change.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/67-coh-2-changelog?p=179158#post179158

Relic did state that they are further evaluating on whether to limit the king tiger as well.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/179157-june-23rd-patch-notes-official-feedback-thread?p=179272#post179272


Sturmtiger call in kappa.
30 Jun 2015, 00:15 AM
#98
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 665



The King Tiger is not limited to 1 on the field since it isn't a call in. You will find it missing in the patch note's list of heavies that are affected by the limit change.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/67-coh-2-changelog?p=179158#post179158

Relic did state that they are further evaluating on whether to limit the king tiger as well.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/179157-june-23rd-patch-notes-official-feedback-thread?p=179272#post179272


The question is if 2 KT's are OP. Considering the cost for the okw and the fact their speed makes them the weakest of all the 3 heavies im not sure this is necessary. but at the same time i have no issue if the limit of the KT's are set to one.
30 Jun 2015, 01:07 AM
#99
avatar of Aralepus

Posts: 23

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2015, 23:55 PMNapalm
The solution we have now is total fail. Why are we taking a choice away from the players? All options should be available to a player after they have weighed the pros and cons of their decision. This heavy tank limit doesn't even affect all Factions equally. Again, good idea...bad implementation. Want to get your two heavy tanks? Its going to cost you more then just resources but a good part of your pop cap as well.


Hmm, maybe instead of hitting the popcap, calling in a heavy-tank could impact your resources quite heavily, kinda like Tiger Ace. If you call in a heavy tank it could reduce your income by 15-25 % on both manpower and fuel (normal call-in costs would still apply). This would be in addition to upkeep. This would probably drain you so much it would be damn hard to keep an army going if you have 2 heavies. Which is the risk you would have to take. On top of that you could make it so that reparing tanks cost fuel if that's not enough. Then the hard limit is gone but there is a huge long term risk of fielding more than one. Resource starved while you have them and after losing them you probably don't have much money in the bank.

My only problem with limiting popcap is that it is already streched thin.
30 Jun 2015, 01:08 AM
#100
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2015, 23:55 PMNapalm
The solution we have now is total fail. Why are we taking a choice away from the players? All options should be available to a player after they have weighed the pros and cons of their decision. This heavy tank limit doesn't even affect all Factions equally. Again, good idea...bad implementation. Want to get your two heavy tanks? Its going to cost you more then just resources but a good part of your pop cap as well.


Adding 5-6 more pop cap yeah might help but doubling would make it impossible to make heavy vehicles because most players are at or above 60 pop cap by the time they become available.

If you want to reduce spam but increase choice tie call in's to teching. So if you want Tiger/IS2/Jadgtiger you have to fully complete teching. This would make it so you have to actually invest rather than stall and then spam with a massive fuel reserve you built up because you didn't have to tech.

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